MiG
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Post by MiG on Sept 16, 2008 2:41:57 GMT -5
Haha, I had to catch my breath here... "instead of fueling it behind the scenes." Does anybody knows of anything remotely close to Ukrainians, Russians, Byelorussians and Macedonians fueling the bosnian war behind the scenes? While at the same time, NATO/EU was there armying, intervening, killing, bombing? P.S. MIG i had decided to not write here today, and you spoiled that! Does anybody know of Ukraniana, Russians, etc. fueling the war? Err.. did the Croatian Army/Air Force equipment come out of nowhere? Did the Bosnian Serb Volunteers/Small arms come from thin air? You decided not to write here today? That's a massive feat, and I applaud you for even attempting.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 16, 2008 2:50:55 GMT -5
MIG, selling guns and applying policies and plans are two different beasts.
"did the Croatian Army/Air Force equipment come out of nowhere?"
No, NATO provided your army training/planing as far as i know.
"Did the Bosnian Serb Volunteers/Small arms come from thin air?"
Now thats royal BS. Serb volunteers went ALONE with ZERO help from Athens/Belgrade/Moscow, while the middle eastern mudjahedins were coming in hordes, after the massive anti-serb propaganda by their TV (american-led) channels.
Hey MIG, i notice, you are slowly refinding your old character...
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 16, 2008 2:57:03 GMT -5
As a side note, i was a soldier during the start of Bosnian war (92-94), and while my country was as pro-serb as it could get (relatively to the anti-serb wetsern frenzy), there never was any sign of pro-serb propaganda in the media. At the time we didnt even know who croats/bosnians/serbs were. We knew only that yugoslavia was on fire, and some kids needed clothes and food and medicines.
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Sept 16, 2008 3:20:42 GMT -5
MIG, selling guns and applying policies and plans are two different beasts. "did the Croatian Army/Air Force equipment come out of nowhere?" No, NATO provided your army training/planing as far as i know. "Did the Bosnian Serb Volunteers/Small arms come from thin air?" Now thats royal BS. Serb volunteers went ALONE with ZERO help from Athens/Belgrade/Moscow, while the middle eastern mudjahedins were coming in hordes, after the massive anti-serb propaganda by their TV (american-led) channels. Hey MIG, i notice, you are slowly refinding your old character... Who said anything about Training for the Air Force. BTW, for the HRZ, it was only the intel. reports that were provided. Then moving on to the "thats royal BS" comment. Dude, can you go at least one post without expressing vulgarity? In the Arab world, especially the middle east, Al Jazeera was the national news network that was at work. And so what if volunteers were coming to fight. They could have just as easily not come, and urged their politicians to do something to promote peace in the region. Some Slavic Unity we have, when your "own people" (Slavs) would come and kill you. PS, slipping back into my old Character. WTF? Dude I never changed, I just stopped paying attention to what you had to write. Why is that? Because every single time you're proven wrong, or someone goes against your mainstream belief/thought, you lash out as if they were drowning your mother, swearing and cursing left and right. As a side note, i was a soldier during the start of Bosnian war (92-94), and while my country was as pro-serb as it could get (relatively to the anti-serb wetsern frenzy), there never was any sign of pro-serb propaganda in the media. At the time we didnt even know who croats/bosnians/serbs were. We knew only that yugoslavia was on fire, and some kids needed clothes and food and medicines. What were you in the army? So how come your nation allowed NATO aircraft to fly Bombing Sorties against FRY in 1999, if they were so pro-Serb? (I'll fill that one in as I know that your Government was put under a magnifying glass and was practically pressured into doing this). You didn't know who Croats/Bosniaks/Serbs were? Can I ask you something. What if your wife wasn't Bosnian Serb, what if she was Bosnian Croat? Would your thinking and Crusading be for the Croat side, or still the Serb side. Or would you be neutral in this matter?
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 16, 2008 3:40:25 GMT -5
"So how come your nation allowed NATO aircraft to fly Bombing Sorties against FRY in 1999"
We voted no.
"What if your wife wasn't Bosnian Serb, what if she was Bosnian Croat? Would your thinking and Crusading be for the Croat side, or still the Serb side. Or would you be neutral in this matter?"
Most probably, i would be exposed to the Croat culture, which i would like quite equally i think. The big difference in that case (croat wife), would be that i would NOT be exposed to this massive anti-croat s**t, as happens with the serb case. So, if my wife was a croat, and besided hearing some anti-serb stuff here and there, i would not pay attention, and most probably i would not spend time here.
P.S. Sorry for the BS comment. It is just that your first line resembled to an irony, or make fool of someone, and thus created the usual mig-style taste on my lips, and hence the BS comment.
Dude, i find it weird that no matter if i try and i am sure you have tried to be friendly, we cant! Anyway, i wanna be friendly even if i dont know how.
P.S. In the army i was serving in the Air Force (sleeping at least 9 hours each night,going out at Hersoninos/Malia Crete, and getting weight!)
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 16, 2008 3:45:16 GMT -5
I forgot to tell you, a very close friend of my wife is croat from zagreb and lives in greece as well since the early 80s. Hey hubby was a student in Zagreb. I can tell you, he is more pro-serb than me!
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Sept 16, 2008 4:01:43 GMT -5
^ It doesn't matter to if he's pro-Serb or not. But on the note of me being friendly to you.. dude I try, but sometimes your comments (I understand fully that its the same for you towards me), are just unreal. I can't even believe some of the stuff you say, that you actually said it.
But oh well. Maybe one day we'll see eye to eye, and until then, arguing is something we will have to do to level out the ground in between us, Comrade.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 16, 2008 4:38:29 GMT -5
Glad you see it that way MIG. However we are not alone here, and if anybody would wish to point out some of the unbelievable stuff i write then he would simply say so. I didnt notice that happening (if we exclude the bulk of *those* bosnians/albs for which anything serb is by definition bad).
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Post by Novus Dis on Sept 16, 2008 5:14:04 GMT -5
Oh. But I only see them helping one side. Maybe you didn't quite understand what I was getting at. I was hypothetically asking why they didn't step in and stop the fighting, instead of fueling it behind the scenes. Why? Since all Slavonic countries were suffering from post communist economies I don't understand how you actually think they had the capability to stop anything. Also, the reason why Eastern Slavs didn't help the Croats was because Tudjman and his crew were very orientated towards Germany, Austria and the like.
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Sept 16, 2008 5:15:59 GMT -5
^ So is the Czech Rep., Slovakia, and Poland. They were in much better shape than Eastern Europe, and yet you still see that they didn't even lift a finger, to even intervene on behalf of the United Nations.
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Post by Novus Dis on Sept 16, 2008 5:24:43 GMT -5
^ So is the Czech Rep., Slovakia, and Poland. They were in much better shape than Eastern Europe, and yet you still see that they didn't even lift a finger, to even intervene on behalf of the United Nations. Perhaps you should explain in detail what you mean by "help" and "intervene."
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Post by SKORIC on Sept 16, 2008 5:35:12 GMT -5
I used to get looked after by an old Polish lady when i was young. Very nice lady. Politics isnt everything. But ill still agree that most Poles are pretty gay.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 16, 2008 5:41:35 GMT -5
^ So is the Czech Rep., Slovakia, and Poland. They were in much better shape than Eastern Europe, and yet you still see that they didn't even lift a finger, to even intervene on behalf of the United Nations. MIG, lets not pretend, anyone who lifts a finger gets severely punished by the new order's instruments. Things changed since August/2008, which was the first Slavic victory since 1945.
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Post by Novus Dis on Sept 16, 2008 5:49:22 GMT -5
^ Well the Czechs, Polish and Slovaks did help stop the war by not giving Tudjman, Izebegovic (i.e. instigators) weapons which is more than Germany, America (despite there being a weapons embargo) or any other country apart of the "world community" did.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 16, 2008 6:13:21 GMT -5
I used to get looked after by an old Polish lady when i was young. Very nice lady. Politics isnt everything. But ill still agree that most Poles are pretty gay. So i guess your nanny was Lesbian?
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Post by terroreign on Sept 16, 2008 13:01:41 GMT -5
We Montenegrins have no modern blood or cultural relation to those slavs Except having a Serb/Slavonic orientated religion, having a variant of a Serb/Slavonic language and having Serb/Slavonic customs the Montenegrins have absolutely no connection with other Serbs/Slavs.[/quote] "Serb/Slavonic" customs? You don't know anything about Montenegrins do you.... All we have is similar language, besides that our religion is greek and culture unique to the balkans.
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Post by kapetan on Sept 16, 2008 13:14:00 GMT -5
No, it's non-existent because being Slavic for the past 20 or so odd years has done nothing for Bosniaks. The Muslims under Abdic were quite well off... until their land was "liberated" during Oluja.The Ukrainians, Russians, Byelorussians and Macedonians were supporting Serbs in Krajina and Bosnia. We Montenegrins have no modern blood or cultural relation to those slavs Except having a Serb/Slavonic orientated religion, having a variant of a Serb/Slavonic language and having Serb/Slavonic customs the Montenegrins have absolutely no connection with other Serbs/Slavs. LOL Stick to making hillarious, ridiculous claims about your own at least, don't start about others. Especialy when you don't know much. MIG, selling guns and applying policies and plans are two different beasts. "did the Croatian Army/Air Force equipment come out of nowhere?" No, NATO provided your army training/planing as far as i know. "Did the Bosnian Serb Volunteers/Small arms come from thin air?" Now thats royal BS. Serb volunteers went ALONE with ZERO help from Athens/Belgrade/Moscow, while the middle eastern mudjahedins were coming in hordes, after the massive anti-serb propaganda by their TV (american-led) channels. Hey MIG, i notice, you are slowly refinding your old character... LOL The number of the El-Mudžahid volunteers is still disputed, from around 300 to 1,500. Yea really a "horde". They didn't even do anything, more trouble then they were worth. Where as Serbs had at least 700 Russians in Tsarist Wolves and Cossacks. Combine that with the smaller numbers of Romanians and Greeks and whoever else and it's pretty much the same amount of foriengn fighters as the "300 - 1,500".
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 16, 2008 13:28:11 GMT -5
I have seen documentaries about FORMAL formation of middle eastern divisions. I one, the bosniak slavs were complaining about the strict mentality of their IRANIAN OFFICERS, which would not let them drink alchool. I was it in BH-TV (when still broadcasting on hotbird 13 - anybody knows where is BHTV now?)
The greek volunteers went there WITH ZERO HELP from ANY sellout GOVERNMENT. The IRANIANS/AFGANS went there under a PLAN from their governments... Hey captain, do you think the average mudjahedin would take his walkman, grab his sleeping bag, and hich hike from IRAN to Bosnia?
P.S. Kapetan, are you going ever to get real for just 30 seconds? (enuf to write a decent post).
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Post by kapetan on Sept 16, 2008 13:45:46 GMT -5
Belive what you want, but even the first most absurd numbers given by Serb propaganda weren't over 4 to 6 thousand. And those have long been discarded by most. And 300-1,500 is specificly for the El-Mudzahid, if you can't read. Only 700 had Bosnian citizenship after the war, now there is 200 living there apperantly.
We needed weapons and equipment, not men, we had plenty of soldiers. And like I said we didn't even like them or want them, Alija accepted them, he thought it would be symbolic mostly of how Islamic world will help. Rasim Delic just got 3 years cuz of them, no other reason. Cuz of the El-Mudzahid unit.
However, the foreign volunteers became unpopular even with many of the Bosniak population, because the Bosnian army had thousands of troops and had no need for more soldiers, but for arms. Many Bosnian Army officers and intellectuals were suspicious regarding foreign volunteers arrival in central part of the country, because they came from Split and Zagreb in Croatia, and were passed through the self-proclaimed Croatian Community of Herzeg-Bosnia without problems unlike Bosnian Army soldiers who were regularly arrested by Croat forces. According to general Stjepan Šiber, the highest ranking ethnic Croat in Bosnian Army, the key role in foreign volunteers arrival was played by Franjo Tuðman and Croatian counter-intelligence underground with the aim to justify involvment of Croatia in Bosnian War and mass crimes committed by Croat forces. Although Izetbegoviæ regarded them as symbolically valuable as a sign of the Muslim world's support for Bosnia, they appear to have made little military difference and became a major political liability.
And I don't recall saying the Greek fighters were sent by their government. Iran gave us weapons and support, that's no secret.
What is it with you people? The whole world knows what happend and who was the biggest agressor. You can deny it all you want, it won't change the fact.
It's always the "facist Ustasa Nazi Croats and Muslim fundementalist Bosnian and Albanian terrorists" with you people. Everything is our fault, from first to last. It's almost as if Serbs weren't even part of the wars. Acting like some noble nation of people, but cant even accept their own actions or share responsability.
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Sept 16, 2008 13:46:59 GMT -5
^ Well the Czechs, Polish and Slovaks did help stop the war by not giving Tudjman, Izebegovic (i.e. instigators) weapons which is more than Germany, America (despite there being a weapons embargo) or any other country apart of the "world community" did. Oh. So we're the instigators now are we? It is interesting to me that the respective republics didn't keep their JNA equipment. Somehow, we weren't prepared. Yeah you're totally right. Those damn Croats and Bosniaks and their near-to-non-existent armies. Shame on them!
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