CiKoLa
Amicus
Gotovina Heroj!
Posts: 3,728
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Post by CiKoLa on Jan 27, 2009 22:02:04 GMT -5
I was thinking the other day had the Americans not prevented the HV from taking Banja Luka what would the situation in BiH be like today?
At first i thought, BiH would have been the second Croatia, a EU candidate, negotiating its way toward full membership, maybe even a member of NATO.
But what i didnt factor in was the status of each of the ethnic groups ... as a result of the fall of Banja Luka.
Would have the muslims dominated over the whole territory of BiH, while giving both the Croats and Serbs minority status. The answer most probably.
Maybe and i repeat maybe taking Banja Luka wouldnt have been the best thing to do?
What do u think ?
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Post by Marshall_Stanko on Jan 27, 2009 22:10:17 GMT -5
The main thing is Banja Luka had not fallen, if it did, it would have resulted in a full scale war and FR-Yugoslavia would have intervened.
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Post by karabin on Jan 27, 2009 22:12:10 GMT -5
LOL, i think you were meant to say NATO. |
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Post by SKORIC on Jan 27, 2009 23:00:22 GMT -5
For the 1000th time you wouldnt have gotten that close without nato so get over yourselves  |
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Post by karabin on Jan 27, 2009 23:33:23 GMT -5
For the 1000's time you wouldnt have gotten that close without nato so get over yourselves NATO who??? Some ustase and balije from time to time tend to leave out this rather tiny military force called the North Atlantic Treat Organization. Let us once again for the 1000s time recap how Croats and Muslims made their pathetic advancements towards the end of the BiH war. Ladies and Gentlemen, I reintroduce you to: Operation Deliberate Force
was a sustained air campaign conducted by the North-Atlantic military organization to undermine the military capability of the Bosnian Serb Army
The operation was carried out between August 30 and September 20, 1995, involving 400 aircraft and 5000 personnel from 15 nations.
During the campaign, a total of 3515 sorties were flown against 338 individual targets. Aircraft involved in the campaign operated out of Italy and from the U.S. aircraft carriers USS Theodore Roosevelt and USS America. Sixty-eight percent (68%) of the bombs used in this campaign were precision-guided munitions. The Bosnian Serb integrated air defence network, comprising of aircraft and surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), presented a high-threat environment to the allied air operations.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_NATO_bombing_in_Bosnia_and_HerzegovinaIf any of you dumb f**ks still continue to talk about some BiH Army or HV advancements in BiH without considering NATO huge involvement in this then you are some serious f**king RETARD. I hereby rest my case. |
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CiKoLa
Amicus
Gotovina Heroj!
Posts: 3,728
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Post by CiKoLa on Jan 27, 2009 23:39:53 GMT -5
^^ ur off topic.
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MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Jan 27, 2009 23:58:40 GMT -5
Sure you want me to answer this question? Difficult to tell, as Serbia would have declared full out support for RS at that point in time, as even worse cases of people "emigrating" from that region would prompt a severe reaction from the international body (United Nations). This hypothetical question cannot be answered, as there is millions of endings. Had it fallen, you may have gotten an all out war, with the JNA going on a destruction binge, and NATO taking all the blame for such a thing. Had it fallen, the war may have ended in 1995, or 2005, depending on the economy and complexity of will from Serbia-Montenegro (And they're staunch supporters). Exactly. Good interpretation, but that one of the millions of ways it could have ended; that one being the lesser of two evils. Things would have still stayed the same, or the Governments of Croatia and Bosnia would have had to deal with huge genocide cases had ethnic cleansing been the case. (Realize that you cannot just erase 1.4M people) Bosniaks, Serbs, and Croats would STILL be constituent people, as BiH cannot work without such a system (If someone tried, it would be civil war all over again). No. Cannot happen, as Croats in Croatia and Serbs in Serbia would never allow such a thing. See, there's a thing called extremism in the Balkans, and it can be used as a political and propagandist tool. Correct. More bad would have come out of it, than good. Just overview the scenario right before HV, HVO, and ARBiH started the offensives (counter-offensives), onto RS. VRS was logistically crippled by NATO as a punishment for Genocide and Bombings/Siege of Sarajevo. Good thread Cikola. Real Food for thought s**t.  EDIT: Just saw this comment and thought I'd add to it. Strategically, HV, HVO, and ARBiH, could have done it, but it would have taken them more than a year to do so (Make Banja Luka Fall that is), without NATO involvement. Think in terms of Morale, Tactics, Materials etc. BTW, no question is stupid, and is always worth asking. Don't belittle anyone, and don't insult. If you have something to say, say it nicely.
Here-on in, good behavior please. Don't be a dick. |
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Post by vinjak on Jan 28, 2009 0:37:16 GMT -5
without NATO involvement.
I dont understand this bit, are you saying that if Nato did not bomb the BSerbs that the other sides would have been able to somehow take Banja Luka ?
The thing that most of you are forgetting is that while the offensive was moving the BSerbs where pulling back and regrouping while there was a good chance that Banja Luka would have fallen there was no chance that it could have been kept.
Also if I remember correctly NATO warned HV and ARBIH forces to stop or they would leave them to Serbia and also do a little bombing of there azzes.
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MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Jan 28, 2009 0:48:24 GMT -5
^ Exactly. HV and ARBiH Forces would be stretched a little thin, and the war would have been prolonged, and many more would have died. For all I know, if it continued, I wouldn't be having this conversation with you. Glad it didn't, and it was a smart move on everyone's part.  |
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Post by zgembo on Jan 28, 2009 1:32:36 GMT -5
What if Cikola's dad didn't get drunk and knock up his mom that ill-fated night? For one, we would all be spared of his stupid threads. That's even more fun to contemplate about.
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Post by kapetan on Jan 28, 2009 2:31:20 GMT -5
why do serbs ALWAYS cry about bosniak and croat forces getting american help like serbs didnt receive any form of assistance from anyone. give me afuckin break. you had every advantage to BEGIN WITH.
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Post by markosijekira on Jan 28, 2009 6:50:05 GMT -5
Yeah one possibility is it would have prolonged the war, see neither the VRS nor the HV or ABiH had the resources to sustain a prolonged offensive. When the HV launched Oluja and the follow-up into Bosnia after years of preparation it was throwing everything into the fight, if Banja Luka had fallen it would have been at the tip of a overstretched bulge into Serb territory, i doubt the offensive could have been sustained beyond it, considering Banja Luka is a major city (for Balkan standards anyhow) and the offensive could have bogged down in gritty urban warfare that could take weeks if not months, a possible repeat of the tenecious defence in Vukovar, something no army wants to deal with. And there is no telling what the VJ would have done, since the vast bulk of the VJ and it's hardware was east of the Drina, whatever the outcome it would have been a bloody mess.
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Jan 28, 2009 6:53:13 GMT -5
If u look at the Death of Yugoslavia docu, u can se that croats general him self said theres no need to help the bosniaks after they acomplished what they did... HVO left ABIH after they took hercegovina or something like that, alija him self said not to progress into RS because VRS was arming it self... And would probably get full support from serbias army..
Alija werent stupid, he knew there were more soldiers in Serbia than those paramilitary units...
With HVO, u would have a chance to take over RS, but without it u would be sent back to the stone age...
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Post by SKORIC on Jan 28, 2009 6:55:59 GMT -5
why do serbs ALWAYS cry about bosniak and croat forces getting american help like serbs didnt receive any form of assistance from anyone. give me af**kin break. you had every advantage to BEGIN WITH. We arent "crying" about NATO interfering. But for you guys to always blame them for not letting you take Banja Luka is kind of ungrateful as the war wouldnt have turned out the same way it did if they didnt interfere in the first place. Anyways next war if Serbs have most of the weapons again we will perhaps hold a garage sale or give some good-will donations to make it a fair fight. Cause you know everyone else in the world does that when it comes to war. |
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Post by SKORIC on Jan 28, 2009 7:36:18 GMT -5
If u look at the Death of Yugoslavia docu, u can se that croats general him self said theres no need to help the bosniaks after they acomplished what they did... HVO left ABIH after they took hercegovina or something like that, alija him self said not to progress into RS because VRS was arming it self... And would probably get full support from serbias army.. Alija werent stupid, he knew there were more soldiers in Serbia than those paramilitary units... With HVO, u would have a chance to take over RS, but without it u would be sent back to the stone age... Exactly. Watch from 8:00 minutes onward. uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RgepipSsmsk&feature=related |
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Jan 28, 2009 7:43:32 GMT -5
QUOTE ALIJA
Mi smo znali sta to znaci, u slucaju da nastavimo rat mi bi ga morali voditi sami, dakle bez hrvata i osudom svijeta, takav rat nije imao nikakve sanse za bosnu.
// Izetbegovic told Hoolbroke "he would need to sell the seasefire to his people"
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tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Jan 28, 2009 9:12:08 GMT -5
if what you guys said is true about nato being the reason why HV, HVO & ABiH forces were on the doorstep of banja luka about to take it, well then why do alot of you think that a full scale war between yugoslavia and cro/bih wouldve happened if they did end up taking it?....
if it was all nato's doing, then surely yuoslavia would not think about going to war with nato. or would they?...
if they tried, they would surely lose.
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
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Post by Trazi Vise on Jan 28, 2009 9:19:54 GMT -5
lol @ all this propaganda including the initial thread.
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Post by SKORIC on Jan 28, 2009 9:22:11 GMT -5
^ Not full scale war against NATO. Remember if HV, HVO & ABiH continued without nato approval they were going to withdraw their support.
Anyways as the doco i posted above showed, Tudjman was unwilling to go deeper since there were no Croats there so no need to risk casualties. He says that himself in the video, watch it.
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Jan 28, 2009 10:32:32 GMT -5
lol easiest way to deny something is to say PROPAGANDA
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