highduke
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Post by highduke on Dec 8, 2007 21:39:02 GMT -5
Fan Noli:
The facts in this thread prove hat you are wrong. Post some articles to prove your point of view. There are enough facts here to see that and no facts to believe otherwise.
Check this out, in the 3rd paragraph:
This is the Vice President of Serbia saying that Serbia's reaction to Kosovo independence is a state secret, upon being asked what action would be taken if Kosovo declared independence.
Here's more:
Serbia's Defense Minister writes to NATO saying that Serbia's security forces "will do everything in their power, including the use of the most extreme meaures for the sake of maintaininhg the peace and stabilty on the south of Central Serbia, in case the crisis escelates."
When you consider that one month ago, the government was openly saying that it would never come to Serbia re-entering the province - you can see that things have changed.
Taken on their own, none of the facts in this thread mean anything but if you take them together, they show that the tide has turned.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Dec 9, 2007 8:48:44 GMT -5
The tough talk was even greater during Milosevic's days prior to the bombing campaign 1999. What makes you think these empty threats contain substance now?
It is all about rhetorics. An attempt of trying to create disunion among EU members and avoid an EU consensus regarding the coordinated support for independence. One day, threaten the Kfor, the other day, take back what you said. It is a game. I am of the opinion that if Serbia was indeed so desperate as to engage Kfor militarily, the consequences for your part will be fatal, and what economic comeback you've achieved so far will have been for nothing.
What I expect the most is some isolated skirmishes between the Czar Lazar Guard, backed by you, and perhaps Kfor and ANA on the other hand. The intensity and frequency of such skirmishes, that will not escalate into a full fledged war, will depend on who's in charge in Serbia; the Radicals or someone else. The Radicals will be inclined to create some drama to 'proove' they have been 'serious' in all their threatening.
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highduke
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Post by highduke on Dec 9, 2007 13:06:11 GMT -5
Here's food for thought:
Nobody cares about your opinion unless it's laden with factual articles. The consequences will not be fatal because KFOR will not engage a Russian-backed Serb army & police force implementing Resolution 1244 of Dayton, which gives Serbs a right to maintain an army & police in the province. Nor do Serbs need to engage KFOR to enter & establish themselves in their own territory.
KFOR will look on because Dayton Agreement gives Serb army and police the right to be in K&M and because Kosovo will be a quasi-state after 'independence' without UN protection and still, legally, a part of Serbia. Without Russia, Serbia wouldn't be able to implement Resolution 1244 or use international law to its advantage.
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Fender
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Post by Fender on Dec 9, 2007 17:23:36 GMT -5
^^ The Dayton agreement has nothing to do with Kosovo. It was the Kumanovo agreement.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 9, 2007 18:44:22 GMT -5
"That means that GREATER SERBIA is just around the corner."
Its not about greater serbia, its about keeping in check with international law. Belgrade has followed it and busted its balls to come up with a compromising solution to this issue but pristina has refused because the united states told them so.
I have yet to see a compromise from pristina.
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Fender
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Post by Fender on Dec 9, 2007 20:09:57 GMT -5
"That means that GREATER SERBIA is just around the corner." Its not about greater serbia, its about keeping in check with international law. Belgrade has followed it and busted its balls to come up with a compromising solution to this issue but pristina has refused because the united states told them so. I have yet to see a compromise from pristina. Which is why the U.S. are struggling with this concept of unlateral declaration.
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highduke
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Post by highduke on Dec 9, 2007 20:14:45 GMT -5
Fender: the US is struggling with Russia and 2 failed wars along with a declining dollar.
Novi Pazar: It is about GREATER SERBIA. As far as international law, we are only able to use it BECAUSE OF Russia. International law messed us up in the 90s - sanctions, embargos, etc...
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Fender
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Post by Fender on Dec 9, 2007 20:49:31 GMT -5
Fender: the US is struggling with Russia and 2 failed wars along with a declining dollar. Novi Pazar: It is about GREATER SERBIA. As far as international law, we are only able to use it BECAUSE OF Russia. International law messed us up in the 90s - sanctions, embargos, etc... Of course the U.S. are struggling. They are in a mess with Kosovo, and have have been caught out lying again about Iran. As you mentioned, two failed wars with Afghanistan and Iran, you can throw in the Kosovo war as well as that is generally accepted that the campaign was a spectacular failure on the part of NATO. The U.S. still think that Serbia are an easy target but with Russia taking sides has thrown the U.S. into an uncontrlable spin. Hence why they keep saying to Pristina to hold off declaring independance. The U.S. in this case, can no longer ride rough shot over Serbia.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 9, 2007 22:21:59 GMT -5
"Which is why the U.S. are struggling with this concept of unlateral declaration."
Absolutely, they won't be making many friends, thats for sure.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 9, 2007 22:38:05 GMT -5
"The U.S. in this case, can no longer ride rough shot over Serbia."
Kosovo mess may have been prevented if todays Russia was around in the late 90's. The best thing that drunk ever did was he promoted Putin.
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Dsurazal
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Post by Dsurazal on Dec 9, 2007 22:42:08 GMT -5
"That would not be much of setting peace and stability. To Albanians it would be an act of war. An act of hostility."
I don't see how it can be considered an act of war if no shots are fired and Serbia's police force returns and eventually co-exist with Albanian police forces. Remember Kosovo is in Serbia weather you like to hear it or not. If all the Mexicans in the United States were to move to California and try to separate it from the rest of America. American's would be pissed because the Mexicans are not the majority and they are segregating themselves from the rest of the country which is an insult. I understand why things are the way they are but this is not Milosevic's era and no one is trying to make Albanians leave but they have no right to declare anything in a country they are a minority in and I understand they feel as though they are being underscored and pushed down but self-rule of Kosovo has been offered to Kosovo Albanians which makes me believe the only reason Kosovo Albanians now want independence is to segregate themselves from Serbia and make a Greater Albania which will never happen. So even though you might say, bring the Kosovo Serbs back this will never happen because there is no true willingness to co-exist but only to establish what they feel is diplomatically needed to seperate.
I also think it's really interesting that a country like the USA which is multi-cultural would support the segregating of another country. It's for other reason's than Kosovo Albanian security, this is obvious.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 9, 2007 22:54:13 GMT -5
"As far as international law, we are only able to use it BECAUSE OF Russia. International law messed us up in the 90s - sanctions, embargos, etc... "
True.....however, if international law wasn't violated then, then todays economical prospects may have been more rosier.
"It is about GREATER SERBIA"
Well, serbia as it is today is alright, im happy, l would had liked to see serbia bordering Greece, sadly that won't happen.
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Fender
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Post by Fender on Dec 10, 2007 3:47:05 GMT -5
"As far as international law, we are only able to use it BECAUSE OF Russia. International law messed us up in the 90s - sanctions, embargos, etc... " True.....however, if international law wasn't violated then, then todays economical prospects may have been more rosier. "It is about GREATER SERBIA" Well, serbia as it is today is alright, im happy, l would had liked to see serbia bordering Greece, sadly that won't happen. It then would have still been called Jugoslavija.
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 10, 2007 5:48:15 GMT -5
Well, serbia as it is today is alright, im happy, l would had liked to see serbia bordering Greece, sadly that won't happen.There maybe still a chance ! "FYROM" The way things are going, that new state may as well be divided. Greeks would only want 5 - 10% ? which is Pelagonia. The rest to Serbs... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelagonia
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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 10, 2007 6:19:48 GMT -5
"It then would have still been called Jugoslavija."
Yeah thats true Fends, everyone on there own is o.k, but l thought Yugoslavija wasn't a bad thing, as a kid to my teens l used to pride myself as a yugoslav, l was saddened what happened. Imagine if it was a yugoslavia and a democratic nation with 24 - 25 million people and it made its reforms like the independant states that became from it......even imagine the sports teams, wow!.
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Post by sorryp on Dec 10, 2007 6:22:46 GMT -5
Sincerely those guys near the border, Flamingo Casino, etc... dont look much slav to me... I would speak to them as i speak to greeks rather than Serbs. Anyway the Southern Serbs (slavomacedonians) were a victim of yet another application of "divide & conquer" strategy. As for albs, they should move all to albania and start to consider ... working maybe?
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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 10, 2007 6:27:58 GMT -5
"There maybe still a chance ! "FYROM" The way things are going, that new state may as well be divided. Greeks would only want 5 - 10% ? which is Pelagonia. The rest to Serbs..."
It would be great to have a common border with the Greek nation, but it won't happen. FYROM would have to voluntarily give itself up but it would also want to unite with serbia. They can be their nation, but they in my opinion need to change their fricken name, for christs sake!.
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highduke
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Post by highduke on Dec 12, 2007 18:47:22 GMT -5
fyrom WON'T BE DIVIDED.
Once we get rid of the Sipci, become fully allied to Russia economically & militarily, they will see the benefits of re-integrating into Serbia sometime shortly after Montenegrins have the same epiphany. Greece wants no part of FYRoM and Bulgarians have become a Liberal, pro-Western satelite state whose people are unnationalistic.
Greater Serbia is the ultimate truth. All parts of ex-YU except Slovenia & 4 regions of CRO are populated by ethnic Serbs who have been manipulated into taking up anti-Serb identities. They must be re-integrated or expelled.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 12, 2007 19:43:49 GMT -5
"Greater Serbia is the ultimate truth. All parts of ex-YU except Slovenia & 4 regions of CRO are populated by ethnic Serbs who have been manipulated into taking up anti-Serb identities. They must be re-integrated or expelled."
HD, l think everything has been settled. Me personally, l'm concerned about kosovo and to a tiny degree MK.
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Post by cando4u on Dec 12, 2007 20:22:07 GMT -5
"Greater Serbia is the ultimate truth. All parts of ex-YU except Slovenia & 4 regions of CRO are populated by ethnic Serbs who have been manipulated into taking up anti-Serb identities. They must be re-integrated or expelled." HD, l think everything has been settled. Me personally, l'm concerned about kosovo and to a tiny degree MK. School me in, why no Serbians in Slovenia ? Seems to me they knew something the others didn't
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