|
|
Post by Alb_Korcar on Apr 17, 2009 14:23:10 GMT -5
^ ato jane shkrime me shume emocionale sesa logjike. Dissidented gjithmone jane me emocionalet se u shkerdhyen keq ne komunizem edhe inatin e marrin ne forma te ndryshe duke perfshire anti-shqiptarizem. exactly, exalt for that...they dont know whether theyre coming or going with their arguments... |
|
|
|
Post by Alb_Korcar on Apr 17, 2009 14:35:35 GMT -5
Greek ethnic minority numbers are reduced by new census of Albania in 2009, when the Albanian population is fourfold since first census of 1929. Unfortunately there are no reliable statistics on the actual size of the minority, since no official census with ethnic criteria has been conducted to date, although this is one of the commitments to the European Union. According to data presented at the 1919 Paris Conference, the ethnic Greek minority numbered 120.000. The last census under the Communist regime in 1989 cites only 60.000, although the total population of Albania had fourfold in the meantime. Both 2001 and 2009 census did not cover the ethnic Greek minority as there was no question on ethnic origin. According to CIA estimates in 1989, the Greek ethnic minority of Albania numbered 280.000 inhabitants in a total Albanian population of 3.100.000 . Which we believe, Albania, Greece or CIA sources? But noting the increase of the Albanian population in four times to 4.2 milion, also the population of the Greek minority is raised fourfold in the 480.000 inhabitants! e mo Kartë te kish mare malli per token meme ?? u ktheve me ne fund ne forumin Shqiptar where u belong !! ;D duhesh qirasur me nje rakicke pe mani tani LOL |
|
donnie
Senior Moderator 
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
|
Post by donnie on Apr 17, 2009 14:41:17 GMT -5
Ti.
Kosmas Aitolos wasn't an Albanian. And this is a forum, not a place where you "shut up". If you're so sensitive, take a hike.
|
|
|
|
Post by Alb_Korcar on Apr 17, 2009 14:44:31 GMT -5
Ti. Kosmas Aitolos wasn't an Albanian, retard. And this is a FORUM, not a place where you "shut up". If you're so sensitive, take a hike. u dont know anything about the Orthodox religion...just because he wasnt Albanian doesnt mean he wasnt a saint...i was trying to be helpful by telling u to shut up becase u sound really stupid no offence...he wasnt Albanian...right neither was Jesus (or was he? LOL) |
|
donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
|
Post by donnie on Apr 17, 2009 15:16:12 GMT -5
LOL, sure  That isn't why I said he wasnt a saint. He wasnt a saint because he was an agent of the Sultan and the Patriarchate, whose aim was the Hellenization of the Orthodox Albanian, Vlach and Slav populations of contemporary South Albania, parts of Greece, Macedonia & Bulgaria. In exchange for a ferman allowing him to travel without troubles, he urged the peasantry to obey the Sultan as their king. He cursed the Suliotes when they banned him from their mountain stronghold, saying to them "aty ku i keni varur jataganet e juaj, aty evgjiterit do t'i varin sazmet e tyre". Why wasn't Kosmas Aitolos a saint? When he went to Himara, he tried to persuade the villagers that a (Greek) school was more important than a church. He urged them to build one, but the villagers said they could not afford it. And so he said to them to destroy the church, and build the school with its material. The villagers were shocked and couldn't do it, so Kosmas took a pick and started climbing up the church and take down the building. (F. Mihalopoulos, Kosmas o Aitolos ethnapostolos, p. 146). Doesn't sound like a saint to me ... Coming from you? None taken. Jesus wasn't an agent of the Sultan either nor did he curse other languages other than his own as "heretic". |
|
|
|
Post by Alb_Korcar on Apr 17, 2009 15:20:45 GMT -5
again with the hellenization of south Albania, me nje vrime i bie fyellit ti...ok this has been special.
|
|
donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
|
Post by donnie on Apr 17, 2009 15:23:52 GMT -5
Great comeback. Left me speechless .. really, you're so well armed with arguments and sources, I cannot counter you anymore. Everything packed into one and ... a half sentence. Amazing.
PS I was being sarcastic.
|
|
|
|
Post by ErmirI on Apr 17, 2009 16:00:39 GMT -5
O korcarproletar, Kozmai eshte me siguri shenjtor per greket, po per ne eshte e kunderta....
|
|
donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
|
Post by donnie on Apr 17, 2009 16:05:40 GMT -5
O korcarproletar, Kozmai eshte me siguri shenjtor per greket, po per ne eshte e kunderta.... x2 Ky po mendon se kam gje kunder orthodokseve. Kurrsesi. Te gjithe jemi shqiptare, dhe kam respekt per te tri konfesionet. Por Kozmai eshte tjeter gje. Ate e ka bere kisha jone shenjtor pa u menduar. Secili qe don te mesoje per Kozmain, lexojeni vepren e Pellumb Xhufit, "Dilemat e Arberit" thirret, dhe do te mesoni me mire se kush ishte ai. Gjithashtu, fshataret e rrethit te Krujes e kane konsideruar si te "shenjte" tyrben e Ballaban pashes, armikut te Skenderbeut dhe renegatit shqiptar qe luftoi perkrah turqve. |
|
|
|
Post by Alb_Korcar on Apr 17, 2009 16:21:37 GMT -5
O korcarproletar, Kozmai eshte me siguri shenjtor per greket, po per ne eshte e kunderta.... o gustavskllav (gustave eshte emer sllav apo jo ?) the Orthodox church of Albanian says hes a saint then he is a saint...ju nuk jini kaur dhe pse disa nga ju hiqeni ashtu...its the same when they make all thse jokes about Janullatos thinking its cool...well not when u talk to the real Orthodox Albanians....not! cool...everyone thse days says theyre Orthodox or Catholic...most are new converts....just informing u aobout the reality religion is seperate from nationlity....so both of u just shut up about this an come out of ur Albanian bubble before someone pops it |
|
donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
|
Post by donnie on Apr 17, 2009 16:44:00 GMT -5
LOL. This is why I don't take offence if you call me stupid.
Kaur? I krishtere po mendon? Une nuk hiqem si i krishtere. Por kjo s'dmth se nuk kam kurrfare dijeni mbi fene e krishtere. And so what if the Albanian Orthodox Church says he is a saint? If it says the world is flat, will you believe it? Neqoftese te thote Jezu Krishti "beso ne Kozmane, sepse ai eshte shenjtor", tjeter gje eshte. So far this hasn't happened.
This is a forum, so if you cannot cope with it, you're in the wrong place baby. The very idea behind a forum is to debate issues where people disagree with arguments. But you're too sensitive for that. So, instead of being so childish, try to argue, with arguments. "Because the church says so" isn't an argument. Tell us why Kosmas Aitolos was a saint to you. You're such an expert on Orthodoxy anyway, so go ahead.
PS Is Kosmas Aitolos also acknowledged as a saint outside Albania & Greece? Or is he a local saint like St Sava of Serbia?
|
|
|
|
Post by ErmirI on Apr 17, 2009 17:12:28 GMT -5
Gustave eshte gjerman o burre dheut , c'ke qe qe fillon e shan tani? Mamane Korcare dhe ortodokse e kam, kaur eshte nje fjale qe se pedorim ka vjet...
Kisha jone eshte infiltruar ane e mbane me greker mor vella, te ishte gjalle Noli, apo thjeshte te ishin prifterinjte shqiptare ne krye te kishes sone e shikoje ti sa do e konsideronin shenjtor
Nuk ka nevoje te jesh ortodoks te dish qe Kozmai ishte armik i popullit shqiptar...Une barcaleta per Janullatosin nuk kam degjuar...nuk do me bente per te qeshur nje kafshe qe e dua te ngordhe si agjent grek qe eshte..
Vetem se ti je ortodoks nuk ke te drejte te flasesh ne emer te tere ortodokseve, fol per veten tende.
t'u pergjigja me njerezi se me ofendove, une po e mbyll ketu, nuk te pergjigjem me.
|
|
|
|
Post by Alb_Korcar on Apr 17, 2009 17:17:18 GMT -5
Ore Donnie me emer pe Amerikani...i didnt tell u to shut up for my health...ur just not well informed about the Albanian Orthodox church so theres nothing to agree or disagree with when u dont know anything about it... and gustave i speak for the Orthodox Christians of Korca, they would never wish for Janullatos death LOL what kind of dope r u smoking ? if u dont believe me pay us a visit at korcajone.net anyway happy easter  |
|
|
|
Post by Kastorianos on Apr 18, 2009 5:19:43 GMT -5
Bravo Korcarbre +1!!!!!! For saying what they dont want to hear..for saying the truth.  |
|
donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
|
Post by donnie on Apr 18, 2009 7:56:43 GMT -5
Obviously more than you to know that one of the guys you venerate as a saint was not a man of God at all, but rather an agent of the High Porte ... dhe nje ithtar i greqizimit te jugut ... per kete arsye ai e quante gjuhen shqipe nje "gjuhe heretike" dhe propagonte se te gjithe duhet te flisnin greqisht, sepse keshtu e do kisha.
|
|
PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
Amicus
It's Nice to be Important but It's more Important to be Nice!
Posts: 3,681
|
Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Apr 18, 2009 11:22:30 GMT -5
Quote: =========================================== te ishte gjalle Noli, apo thjeshte te ishin prifterinjte shqiptare ne krye te kishes sone e shikoje ti sa do e konsideronin shenjtor =========================================== Grekerit gjithmone kane shkuar pas neve dhe te mirave tona te Shqiptareve. Ne Shqiptaret gjithmone kemi qene dhe jemi shpetimtare te grekeve dhe te greqise. Grekerit nuk mund te bejne kurgja pa ne Shqiptaret. Gjithcka e mire ne greqi eshte puna dhe mendja e ndritur e Shqiptarit.  |
|
|
|
Post by Alb_Korcar on Apr 19, 2009 12:58:26 GMT -5
Obviously more than you to know that one of the guys you venerate as a saint was not a man of God at all, but rather an agent of the High Porte ... dhe nje ithtar i greqizimit te jugut ... per kete arsye ai e quante gjuhen shqipe nje "gjuhe heretike" dhe propagonte se te gjithe duhet te flisnin greqisht, sepse keshtu e do kisha. car eshte ithtar ? anyway worldcit summed it up "I" dont venerate him as a saint the Albanian Orthodox church does |
|
|
|
Post by worldcit on Apr 19, 2009 13:25:58 GMT -5
LOL, sure That isn't why I said he wasnt a saint. He wasnt a saint because he was an agent of the Sultan and the Patriarchate, whose aim was the Hellenization of the Orthodox Albanian, Vlach and Slav populations of contemporary South Albania, parts of Greece, Macedonia & Bulgaria. In exchange for a ferman allowing him to travel without troubles, he urged the peasantry to obey the Sultan as their king. He cursed the Suliotes when they banned him from their mountain stronghold, saying to them "aty ku i keni varur jataganet e juaj, aty evgjiterit do t'i varin sazmet e tyre". Why wasn't Kosmas Aitolos a saint? When he went to Himara, he tried to persuade the villagers that a (Greek) school was more important than a church. He urged them to build one, but the villagers said they could not afford it. And so he said to them to destroy the church, and build the school with its material. The villagers were shocked and couldn't do it, so Kosmas took a pick and started climbing up the church and take down the building. (F. Mihalopoulos, Kosmas o Aitolos ethnapostolos, p. 146). Doesn't sound like a saint to me ... Coming from you? None taken. Jesus wasn't an agent of the Sultan either nor did he curse other languages other than his own as "heretic". St Kosma lived before magalidea coming into existance, so what he did and how he acted I think was purely for relegion purporses. Albanians learning greek in that time meant they have the chance to read bible which back then was not translated in Albanian. Furthemore, Albanian was not a written language in the time he was preaching christianity among albanians. The main enemy of the time was Turkish rule.... by learning greek and reading and understanding the bible the spread of islam among albanians could have been stopped. I think that the main reason of mass conversion of Albanians into islam was lack of religion literature in Albanian language. As far as St. Kosma insistance of rather having a greek school than a church I think this was for religious purpose too. Why having a church where no one was able to understand what was preached. So better have the understanding of the language of bible then read bible. In St. Kosma time there was not a greek state so Kosma can't be accused of chovinist activity. As far as asking the villagers to obey the sultan..that is religous too. In bible it is said that people should obey the authority. Sultan was the authority of that time. On the other hand Christianity is the religon of peace. No uprising was ever preached by Christ. If someone slaps you, you react by turning the other cheek. We cant' judge what St. Kosma did centuries ago in different circumstances. |
|
|
|
Post by Alb_Korcar on Apr 19, 2009 13:36:47 GMT -5
^ lol +1
|
|
donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
|
Post by donnie on Apr 19, 2009 18:30:58 GMT -5
I think you're deviating a little from the discussion, emphasizing a different issue. We were discussing the sanctity of Kosmas Aitolos, what made him a saint in Korcar's eyes. Neither you nor Korcar have succeeded in arguing in favor of his sanctity. Quite on the contrary, we've been able to establish that he was a highly political figure, who traveled the Balkans with a ferman dispatched to him by the Sultan, giving him immunity, preaching to the peasantry to be obedient and to embrace the Hellenic speech.
Now, I don't see how calling other languages "heretical" is divine, or holy. To my knowledge, Jesus never preached about the superiority of one language over the other. The legend of Babel tells us, on the other hand, that God created all languages as a retribution for our dangerous ambitions, and thus, to him, they are all intelligible and equal. Kosmas teachings goes against this concept. If his motives were purely religious, as you put it, why preach to the Himariotes that having a (Greek) school was of more importance than having a church -- this to he point that he commanded to destroy the church and build a school instead with the material of the former. Kosmas' contribution was mostly in the sphere of schools and education in Greek, rather than spreading the Gospel and its message.
Just because the Megali Idea had yet to see its dawn, and that our modern perception of nationalism had yet to establish itself in the world, doesn't negate the fact that Kosmas was a chauvinist, and that his contempt of the non-Greek tongues was a display of what one might call an early form of Hellenic nationalism and sense of superiority, not unknown even before Kosmas' birth.
As for the rest of what you wrote; the notion that the Turks were the main and single enemy of the time is a subjective notion that cannot be projected so far into history. Kosmas Aitolos and much of the Greek Church considered the Catholic rite to be more of an enemy, favouring the Turks over the West under the pretext that the latter were more intolerant and vile in its treatment of the Byzantine Church.
|
|
