Lib-Fier
Amicus
Bricklayer 'works for meals'
Posts: 1,092
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Post by Lib-Fier on Aug 5, 2009 9:52:44 GMT -5
Lib, we both say the same thing but have different approaches to it. You say the albanians contributed to the greek state. We say that even if they were albanians, their soul and belief were for the cause of hellenism. So how can we deny them that right ? They shed blood for our country, so we cannot deny them their sacrifice. I call them albanian would not be fair to them. first of all they shed blood for their livelyhoods and all of their leaders and heros regarded and prided themselfes at being of Arber stock, least we forget that arvanitka missed out by a handfull of votes to being the official language of the new greek state, but no matter, they shed blood to rid their lands of turks, but for the sake of the argument lets say they shed blood for the greek state, how do you repay them then? by closing down their schools? forbidding them to continue to learn their mother tongue? persecuting them? taunting them? putting them down for being albs? the question is not 'if' they were albanian, because that's what they 'were', the question is how you treated them, you wiped out all conciousness, in my humble opinion they have no dignity, someone who doesn't embrace or allowed to explore their roots is a nobody and a lost soul, but that's my opinion. They did not fight for the 'Hellenic' cause that's ridiculous, where was your hellenic spirit those 500 years of suffocation by the ottomans? not as single significant uprising, Hellenism was a notion dead and buried and as much relevant then as albanians claiming arvanites as their own now, hellenism is extinct, no amount of brain washing and propaganda can resurrect it.
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Aris
Amicus
Greek Troll
Posts: 832
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Post by Aris on Aug 5, 2009 9:55:42 GMT -5
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Lib-Fier
Amicus
Bricklayer 'works for meals'
Posts: 1,092
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Post by Lib-Fier on Aug 5, 2009 10:01:43 GMT -5
but i am outraged at the utter lies and fabrications that people make up about them, call them what they are and don't make excuses. I agree. This along with the deep hatred some of them feel about Albanians annoys me. It's funny because I've never heard of these type of hatred from the Arberesh or the Arnavut, and I think it has to do with the Greek stereotypes about Albanians. The Arvanite have bought into them and many do not want anything to do with Albanians because of it. They do not want to associate with the poor, human trafficking, drug dealers, because they associate these things with being Albanian. that's what i'm saying bro, its not about them associating themselfes with us, even in spite of greek media portrayal and the whole greek state apparatus deliberately demonising albanians, its about who they are, where they come from and their self worth.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Aug 5, 2009 11:19:23 GMT -5
You guys moved on to some Alb vs. Greek fight? I guess something was proven regarding the Arm 'genocide'(or more like 'what they had coming')
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Aug 5, 2009 11:37:26 GMT -5
Libo ...is making me laugh so hard I think I crapped my pants...
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Lib-Fier
Amicus
Bricklayer 'works for meals'
Posts: 1,092
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Post by Lib-Fier on Aug 5, 2009 11:42:48 GMT -5
watch out you'll burst your colostomy bag,
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Post by chalkedon on Aug 5, 2009 11:58:51 GMT -5
Lib, we both say the same thing but have different approaches to it. You say the albanians contributed to the greek state. We say that even if they were albanians, their soul and belief were for the cause of hellenism. So how can we deny them that right ? They shed blood for our country, so we cannot deny them their sacrifice. I call them albanian would not be fair to them. first of all they shed blood for their livelyhoods and all of their leaders and heros regarded and prided themselfes at being of Arber stock, least we forget that arvanitka missed out by a handfull of votes to being the official language of the new greek state, but no matter, they shed blood to rid their lands of turks, but for the sake of the argument lets say they shed blood for the greek state, how do you repay them then? by closing down their schools? forbidding them to continue to learn their mother tongue? persecuting them? taunting them? putting them down for being albs? the question is not 'if' they were albanian, because that's what they 'were', the question is how you treated them, you wiped out all conciousness, in my humble opinion they have no dignity, someone who doesn't embrace or allowed to explore their roots is a nobody and a lost soul, but that's my opinion. They did not fight for the 'Hellenic' cause that's ridiculous, where was your hellenic spirit those 500 years of suffocation by the ottomans? not as single significant uprising, Hellenism was a notion dead and buried and as much relevant then as albanians claiming arvanites as their own now, hellenism is extinct, no amount of brain washing and propaganda can resurrect it. Libo...they also say that greek missed out as an official language in the US by a couple votes. Cmon man... We never oppressed anybody....you got pakis and albos speaking their native language everyday over here. Im starting to think im in a different country...Greeks like arvanitika and i never heard anybody say differently. Give me proof and sources that we oppressed that language. If that language dies out it will be because the younger ones dont care to speak it. Kind of like a lot of greek americans that dont know greek. Hell, im the only one out of 5 brothers that knows fluent greek. 3 of them dont know it at all,so what are we supposed to think...that americans oppressed us ? Anyway, we have places like Kaimatsalan which i still dont know from what language that toponym is from. We are too open to foreigners if you ask me. Lets be realistic here....
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Aug 5, 2009 12:20:17 GMT -5
watch out you'll burst your colostomy bag all over my triangular pointy eared and nose face more like it.
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Post by leshte on Aug 5, 2009 12:33:38 GMT -5
Hit the Greek forum. Greeks like Arvanitika only if it is of Turkish and slavic origin. Fact of the matter is that vast majority of Arvanites today do not consider themselves Albanian. Case closed. Even though I know of Arvanites who come out and say they're Arvanites only after knowing you for a couple of months. Not only that but they say it shyly, and in such a law voice as though they don't want others to hear it. They ask you to not tell anybody. That speaks of societal pressures. Whether that is dissociation from the new immigrants in Greece or pressure from the Greek state I cannot tell. It may be simply that they have integrated into Greek society.
Going back to the topic. I care about Armenians getting slaughtered just as much they care about Albanians getting slaughtered. I think that is simply fair. Also none of you Greeks responded to the post about you being hypocrites when it comes to things like this. Meaning you're disgusted by the Turks and what they did to the Armenians. However you're not disgusted by what the Serbs did to the Bosnians; you even helped the Serbs in killing the Bosnians. That probably might be a reason why you are not disgusted by the Serbs. Your countriemem collaborated together with the Serbs to kill Bosnian civilians.
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Post by Kastorianos on Aug 5, 2009 13:06:47 GMT -5
This analogy is not that far fetched...its actually quite accurate. It is true that it was pred. Kurds that massacred and raped in Smyrna and other Greek cities and villages in 1922...of course under turkish order. It requires a lot of cold-bloodedness though to perform such actions. The Albanians might have been the European pendant to the Kurds but, despite all the criticism they deserve to get, they had never committed comparable massacres. The European Greeks were quite lucky in contrast to the "Asiatic" ones.. albanians never harmed anybody and never did the bidding of the ottomans, no more or no less than any other nation under the ottoman rule, so quit fabricating utter bollox straight off greek propaganda doctrine, if we were such chums with the ottomans then why did they f*** us over and gave our territories away? left us the poorest region under their rule and virtually made no investments in albania and continued to tax us heavily? whereas greece flourished under ottoman rule, major port town became engines of the ottoman and greek progress, what does the exhange of population among the two countries tell you? you are the one who always cut deals with them. What small scale massacres did albanains commit against greeks which you seem to allude to? when did you become the victims all of the sudden when throughout your miserable history you have done nothing but subject the albanian autochtonous population of epirus to attrocities, pillaging, plundering and ethnic cleansing, your genocide is well documented and accepted, where do you get the balls to say that albanians wronged you? name one fvcking greek that was touched? one slimy rat that was harmed during communism? if anything you doubled in number, lets look at what greeks did to the arvanites shall we? burnt down all of the schools, you forbade them from speaking their native toungue in public, you killed all the arvanites that dared to speak the truth and forcibly wiped out all trace of these great albanian people that won you your independence, so gratefull the greek people huh? have you no shame making up far fetched stories and rationalising them as if there was a shred of fvcking evidence? not to mention the audacity to turn it around and make us out to be monsters when you have systematically persecuted the albanian people. Thats bulls.hit...the Greeks did never really harm Albania and Albanians. The only case is that of the Chams...and that was after their collaboration with the nazis. The Arvanites are another story...you have no clue about them so dont make conclusions that are based on albanian propaganda.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Aug 5, 2009 13:18:38 GMT -5
Never did harm? Im guessing the burn down mosques and villages in southern Albania are nothing but my imagination... and that of locals. The acts of Greek irregulars under the support of the Greek state is just the imagination of locals. The pst Balkan War occupation and even after the west told Greece to back off is my imagination....
There is no country out there that has done Albania as much damage as Greece, under its western allies...
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Aug 5, 2009 13:20:00 GMT -5
Lib, we both say the same thing but have different approaches to it. You say the albanians contributed to the greek state. We say that even if they were albanians, their soul and belief were for the cause of hellenism. So how can we deny them that right ? They shed blood for our country, so we cannot deny them their sacrifice. I call them albanian would not be fair to them. first of all they shed blood for their livelyhoods and all of their leaders and heros regarded and prided themselfes at being of Arber stock, least we forget that arvanitka missed out by a handfull of votes to being the official language of the new greek state, but no matter, they shed blood to rid their lands of turks, but for the sake of the argument lets say they shed blood for the greek state, how do you repay them then? by closing down their schools? forbidding them to continue to learn their mother tongue? persecuting them? taunting them? putting them down for being albs? the question is not 'if' they were albanian, because that's what they 'were', the question is how you treated them, you wiped out all conciousness, in my humble opinion they have no dignity, someone who doesn't embrace or allowed to explore their roots is a nobody and a lost soul, but that's my opinion. They did not fight for the 'Hellenic' cause that's ridiculous, where was your hellenic spirit those 500 years of suffocation by the ottomans? not as single significant uprising, Hellenism was a notion dead and buried and as much relevant then as albanians claiming arvanites as their own now, hellenism is extinct, no amount of brain washing and propaganda can resurrect it. There wasn't Hellenism and there was ...Arberism...come on ore tourkalvane....get it in your mind...your ancestors would probably have been the ones who begged for mercy in Dervenakia, Arahova,etc etc...guys who for a handfull of paras could do the dirty work for their osman bosses... And please for one time, go and tell to an Arvanitis in front of his face that Greeks have made him Greek and he's Albanian like you and all the dirty Gekoliapotsamides... Upload the whole scene in youtube please... Its just that you want to fill up your dishonorable and opprobrious "pages" of your arnavud history... and Arvanites ,living among the rest of us, can fill much pages of what you haven't done... I wonder why Albania got its independence last in the Balkans if so many trime burre were gathered there.... Ore tourkalvane...you didn't have a writing system 130 years ago...and you think that any form of albanian language would be in any state an official language... ;D ;D
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Aug 5, 2009 13:21:44 GMT -5
Never did harm? Im guessing the burn down mosques and villages in southern Albania are nothing but my imagination... and that of locals. The acts of Greek irregulars under the support of the Greek state is just the imagination of locals. The pst Balkan War occupation and even after the west told Greece to back off is my imagination.... There is no country out there that has done Albania as much damage as Greece, under its western allies... Melty feel free to share with us your bad experience with that Greek papa back then...in Narta...
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Post by todhrimencuri on Aug 5, 2009 13:25:29 GMT -5
Dont worry, patrinos, we will never forget. Albanians will remembers so that they will know what to do when the time comes... We dont need to share experiences... best keep them inside, makes a person more angry that way.
And forget about Narta, a few more years and it will be dead. No youth there today, just dust and garbage that has been piling up for the last 10 years.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Aug 5, 2009 13:53:29 GMT -5
Are you jealous of Lib-Fier's title and you write these things? I know you are not that anthellen as you want to seem...just clear up your mind...you know, the ottoman sevda thing...and you are welcomed in the philhellenic society...
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Aug 5, 2009 13:58:11 GMT -5
Btw if anyone of the Tourkalvanous here can recognise his grandgrandfather in the picture...the guy on the ground...can go to the Athens Museum and claim his hatzar back...and his pistols... ;D
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Post by todhrimencuri on Aug 5, 2009 14:02:31 GMT -5
I am kind of angry, truth be told. I earned that title... far more than he did. Its BS, its just a popularity contest. Nobody here likes me because I like the Ottomans.
And no, I say so because Narta is on the verge of death.... its only a matter of time.
There is something I like about Serbs: they never forget. They will propagate it as much as necessary to remember it. They live off of the dream of one day getting revenge, however brutal... and in Srebrenica, they succeeded. I think Albanians should adopt that mentality. Its a good one. Never forget...
Get that stupid idea out of your head...
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Post by leshte on Aug 5, 2009 14:05:03 GMT -5
Can you guide me through your thinking process as to why that can't be an Arvanite in the pic?
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Aug 5, 2009 14:07:13 GMT -5
^The killed one?
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Aug 5, 2009 14:08:56 GMT -5
Get that stupid idea out of your head... Ok...future ...grekoman.... ;D
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