njesh
New Member
Posts: 27
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Post by njesh on May 17, 2009 5:19:28 GMT -5
Overall, I agree with your historical analysis, but as the saying goes “history is too much important to be let only to the historians”. I think a nation has always a need for a corpus of myths, legends, tales ect upon which, let’s say, it justifies its existence and secures its continuation. And here it is when historical accuracy comes in second plane.
I fear that touching that commonly accepted corpus of myths, legends, tales could have catastrophic consequences. We are seeing it under our eyes, people that propose revision of history not because they care about historical accuracy but to promote their political agendas. That’s why people, including me, become suspicious to the point of paranoia I have to admit . Anyway, I understand that this is not your case.
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 17, 2009 5:35:59 GMT -5
Njesh,
Your right, all nations need their myths. But only for a time. When we are first born, we need legitimacy. Albania is not yet "finalized" in terms of national issues like the European states are. Since the fall of Communism and the subsequent "soul searching mode" we have entered, and then the fall of Yugoslavia and the Kosova War, we are still in a bind and thus myths and legends are still necessary. Eventually the time will come when we will need to depart from those myths and accept the truth, and learn to be proud of it as well. I couldnt care less about whether Albs are European or not. Not a bit. But many are so entirely focused on it that it often seems like "Europeanism" supersedes "Albanianism". As if pride in this other, external identity, is more necessary than the other.
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Post by Kastorianos on May 17, 2009 5:39:54 GMT -5
Turkey was in the 4th place or sth its not suspicious at all...many other countries gave them 12 points as well....besides you cannot compare the number of Turks in Germany with the number of Greeks in Albania. Not at all.
Nothing? Why is every of your turkophil sentences then always simultaneously directed at us Greeks or at orthodox people? It has a lot to do with your stance towards Greeks because if Greece and orthodox faith would not exist you wouldnt care about Turkey...hate towards Greeks and love for Turkey are both a dependend on each other interplay for you. And...if it annoys you...it means anyway im right with it.
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 17, 2009 5:47:58 GMT -5
Im not talking about Turkey this year. Im talking about Turkey since it entered Eurovizion. Germany, in overall ALL the Eurovision contests has given most of its points to Turkey. Not by a little either...
I dont think its just Greeks, but also a number of philogreeks in the south. Large portion of Korca for instance and certain groups in Vlora. Then you have the Greek communities in the south... who pay attention to all things Greek religiously. Many in areas like Lunxheri are also Alb Christians, but with strong strong pro Greek leanings.
Lol, look around the forum? Name me a single post where your people dont intrude their noses in? The 400 plus posts of Basil that are always the same. Not to mention that the second I open a topic that deals with Turks and Albs, immediately the Greek posts begin: "TurkoAlbanians blah blah blah". Had it not been for the irritating crap I have to read from your people and the same BS that happens in every. single. topic. I wouldnt name you guys once.
And as for being on the right path... what path? That of being a child? I dont generally like people presuming my views, or giving their own reason for them... nobody does though
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Post by Kastorianos on May 17, 2009 6:01:19 GMT -5
so half of albania....and you forgot tirana.
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 17, 2009 6:10:16 GMT -5
hardly half... the vast vast majority do not vote. More like a small portion of an urban population more dedicated than others. However I do give credit to Greek minority, they watch any competition religiously in favor of Greece. In areas like Himara, I would not be surprised if they organized vote ins and continuous ones as well. However, I would also give credit to the fact that Greek music is on the whole popular in Albania... If Italy had been in the running, however, it would probably have taken the 12.
Anyway, I find it so funny that you guys come here in this great jubilation as if you managed to attain some great victory. It must be a sign of how much I piss you people off... Well then good. Ill say this. We may listen to your music, immigrate to your country... but the people and nation... we ceaselessly insult and attack.
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Post by Kastorianos on May 17, 2009 8:15:12 GMT -5
...thats all speculations....nothing but speculations...
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Post by Kassandros on May 17, 2009 11:35:53 GMT -5
Toskali "The 400 plus posts of Basil that are always the same." ----------------------------------------------------------------- moi I never use copy paste. And in every post I have a brand new argument. If you mean the same like.. "he likes Albanians and dislike Turkalbanians"... this is about.. general ideas and beliefs and ideas/beliefs cannot be different in everypost..
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on May 17, 2009 13:01:55 GMT -5
Toskali "The 400 plus posts of Basil that are always the same." ----------------------------------------------------------------- moi I never use copy paste. And in every post I have a brand new argument. If you mean the same like.. "he likes Albanians and dislike Turkalbanians"... this is about.. general ideas and beliefs and ideas/beliefs cannot be different in everypost.. Actually, it's not your general ideas and beliefs which is the issue, as we all have general ideas, beliefs and perceptions on things and issues. It's just that you're very repetitive and consequently dull, not bringing much to the table ... and the arguments put forward don't hold much substance either, so I fully understand Toskali's assessment of your "contribution" in these forums ...
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on May 17, 2009 13:07:34 GMT -5
I have a story that happened a years days ago. My dad was driving with near near the highway around our home, and, truth be told, we were speeding. A cop pulled us over. The god asked for my dad's ID, looked at his name and then asked him "Are you Greek?", my dad at that point got a little worried since he thought the cop was of that ethnic background and what would happen if he told him he was Alb. Nevertheless, he responded "No, Im Albania." At that point the cop smiled, revealed he was Turkish and said " well in that case then go on ahead." The cop shook my dads hand, and mine, went in his cop car, drove off and we left as well. I think it was around that period I started to realize what ethnic kinship is. This story pretty much sums up the reality in NYC. Every time I meet a Turk in NYC and they find out I'm Albanian I sense a genuine feeling a respect from them which I do not feel from any other nationality. When other Moslems find out I'm Albanian (Egyptians, Moroccans, Pakistanis) the first thing they do is point out that Albanians are Moslems which really pisses me off. The Turks never mention Islam, although they may assume that. When I was watching Albania play in some world cup qualifier a few years ago the following game was England-Turkey so towards the end of the game Turks started walking into the pub and they began rooting for Albania. When the Turkey game came on and one of my friends started cheering England on (he lived in London for 7 years) they were utterly dissapointed and said they would never support England over Albania. Whereas whenever I meet Greeks there's a sense of chillness in the air when I introduce myself as an Albanian, but without exception they are quick to emphasize how close we are as a people as if they are ashamed of the way they feel. This is my experience and I can vouch for a few of my friends as well but I can't speak for all Albanians in NYC.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on May 17, 2009 13:36:22 GMT -5
Nuk do fjale qe me turqit gezojme nje afersi qe nuk e kemi me grekerit, shkijet, maqedonasit etj. Turqia na doli ne krah me 1997 kur Shqiperise i kanoste rreziku nga Greqia. Turqia qe nder te parat qe e njohu pavaresine e Kosoves. Per kete arsye, ata jane miq dhe aleate dhe duhet te investohet ne mirembajtjen e marredhenieve pozitive mes shteteve tona.
Por, une nuk do t'i quaja ata vellezer ... thjesht per faktin se ne shqiptaret s'kemi vellezer, jemi bonjake pa farefis te afert. Dhe per shkaqe historike gjithashtu. Pastaj dua te dalloj mes turqve ... ka kategori te ndryshme. Kategoria e Erdoganit s'me pelqen, sepse tipa te tille e keshilluan qeverine e Kosoves qe te rishkruaj historine shqiptare, duke e pershkruar vershimin dhe pushtimin turk si "clirim", kur dihet se Sulltan Mehmeti II ishte kasapi i shqiptareve ne historine tone ... turqit gjithashtu kerkuan nje heshtje mbi Skenderbeun, heroin dhe simbolin tone kombetar. Gjithashtu s'kam kurrfare respekti, madje i urrej, turcelite e Kosoves qe jane verzioni turk i grekerve himariot ne jug.
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on May 17, 2009 13:54:06 GMT -5
Nuk do fjale qe me turqit gezojme nje afersi qe nuk e kemi me grekerit, shkijet, maqedonasit etj. Turqia na doli ne krah me 1997 kur Shqiperise i kanoste rreziku nga Greqia. Turqia qe nder te parat qe e njohu pavaresine e Kosoves. Per kete arsye, ata jane miq dhe aleate dhe duhet te investohet ne mirembajtjen e marredhenieve pozitive mes shteteve tona. Por, une nuk do t'i quaja ata vellezer ... thjesht per faktin se ne shqiptaret s'kemi vellezer, jemi bonjake pa farefis te afert. Dhe per shkaqe historike gjithashtu. Pastaj dua te dalloj mes turqve ... ka kategori te ndryshme. Kategoria e Erdoganit s'me pelqen, sepse tipa te tille e keshilluan qeverine e Kosoves qe te rishkruaj historine shqiptare, duke e pershkruar vershimin dhe pushtimin turk si "clirim", kur dihet se Sulltan Mehmeti II ishte kasapi i shqiptareve ne historine tone ... turqit gjithashtu kerkuan nje heshtje mbi Skenderbeun, heroin dhe simbolin tone kombetar. Gjithashtu s'kam kurrfare respekti, madje i urrej, turcelite e Kosoves qe jane verzioni turk i grekerve himariot ne jug. Natyrisht qe qeveria Turke ka synimet e saj qe ndoshta nuk jane te njejta me ato tonat po ne nivel popullor ka me teper miqesi sesa armiqesi. As mua s'me pelqen hic ai kolegji Turk qe eshte hapur ne Tirane ku femijeve ju mesohet hymni Turk.
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 17, 2009 14:31:59 GMT -5
Toskali "The 400 plus posts of Basil that are always the same." ----------------------------------------------------------------- moi I never use copy paste. And in every post I have a brand new argument. If you mean the same like.. "he likes Albanians and dislike Turkalbanians"... this is about.. general ideas and beliefs and ideas/beliefs cannot be different in everypost.. Basil, you are quite possibly the most irritable member of this forum, not because of any good on your part, but because you have what I consider quite possibly the smallest mind of anyone who posts here. You cannot even conceptualize any points of views of others, your mind is sooo utterly stuck on its own ideas, that any attempt to have a discussion with you is so utterly worthless. You are simply ignorant, but what is worse, you are so convinced of your intelligence and selfrighteousness that you become even more of an idiot. Your imagination and ability see outside of your pathetic tunnel vision is sooo small it is next to impossible. In the end you come off as a pompous, annoying, irritable, self-righteous, overbearing... etc. etc. However, you are deeply convinced of yourself and are very "proud", so I dont expect this post to him home at all. It will fly over your head and you will make some dumb long reply that will say nothing once yet again. Dont bother, Ive given up reading the crap you post...
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Post by Kastorianos on May 17, 2009 14:53:43 GMT -5
Are you in a bad mood today toskali?
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 17, 2009 14:58:52 GMT -5
Nope, very fine one actually. I just woke up, have a nice cup of coffee next to me and Im happily editing a paper to send in as a sample for work with a certain company.
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Post by Kastorianos on May 17, 2009 15:12:43 GMT -5
Well then...good luck with it.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on May 17, 2009 15:17:48 GMT -5
Thats funny... I fail to see where Basil is irritating... he is one of the most calm,, collective and objective members here.. Donnie... There is nothing to add to this... nothing new to bring... You guys have been farmed out like aphids by the Turks... so now and back then, you find a connection through religion... and don't give me that crap it's not religion... Hoooopla hoooo.... it's about time you acknowledge this and accept it...There is nothing wrong... with have them as friends, so don't try to defend it....it's all good. Next time, ask a Turk what draws him to you...
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donnie
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Post by donnie on May 17, 2009 15:18:51 GMT -5
Hymni turk u mesohet nxenesve shqiptare? Marrezi.
PS Vertet ne shumicen e rasteve, ekziston nje miqesi e ndersjellte, por ka edhe perjashtime, dhe ndikimi i tyre nuk duhet pare si dicka 100 perqind e favorshme dhe ne interes tonin. Ai kolegji dhe shembulli i politikaneve turq qe na keshillonin neve per rishkrimin e historise jane shembuj te mire per ate cfare po flas une. Por ne pergjithesi, pajtohem, raportet tona me turqit jane pozitive, sidomos ne krahasim me greket apo serbet.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on May 17, 2009 15:23:36 GMT -5
Marrezi. ;D
Mostly what Melty writes is that.
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Post by Alb_Korcar on May 17, 2009 16:12:36 GMT -5
Their not fake relations. They are built off of common heritage, religion, history, partnership and respect. Albanians were members of the Ottoman Empire. We were soldiers, administrators, governors. Active citizens of the system. Go to any Albanian town or city and they will sing songs about a certain Pasha or Bey who built the famous mosque of the area and who did great deeds. Just like in, where?, Turkey and Bosnia. Where else in the Balkans are there statues of Pashas, Beys and Agas? Albania, Turkey and Bosnia. Where would else in the Balkans would you see this image in honor of the memory of an Ottoman era administrator: www.shkodraonline.com/e107_images/newspost_images/hasan_riza_pasha.jpgAlbanians, Turks and Bosnians were members and active participants of the same commonwealth. We may have had our problems and run ins, but it is part of the problematics of relationships that abound between any given people. When Mehmet Pasha Bushatliu chopped the heads of the Austrian ambassadors and sent them to Istanbul, it was a clear signal of where his allegiance was. In the end, our feeling of mutuality and ties are based off of this heritage. Same so between Greeks and Serbs. Their is based off of a common distance from the Ottoman realm, an opposed to the Islamic system. A close religious tie that was brought together as a result of the Ottoman system and a common theme of victimization, and the "heroism" it implies. It is not "forced and fake". That is what I would call EU forcing Balkans nations to agree and shake hands on issues. What is "forced and fake" is Albania's "European image" on the ground that we are so touchy and insecure about it. dude ur such a f.ucking psycho because I think you actually believe the crap you write...1st do yourself a favor and stop speaking of behalf of Bosnians and Turks. there is not one single Bosnian or Turk here agreeing with you and theres probably lots of them in these forums. 2nd, stop bragging about your ancestor Mehmet Pasha Bushatliu. we dont care. you keep repeating yourself and not hearing what others have to say. its cool you like Turkish doner, we're not here to judge you, but the only reason you do is because you think Greece hates Turkey. Most Grekes today dont hate Turks, they dont even consider them eneimes anymore. many more Greeks dislike Albanians, and it has nothing to do with religion. my mother's family dont think highly of my father because hes Orthodox, they still think of him as an Alvanos, and some of them dont even believe he is genuine Orthodox, they think he converted when he went to Greece. not to mention my grandparents still dont know that his mother is Cham ;D just shut the f**k up already. you have talked s.hit about everyone from "kaur" Albanians, to Chams(even if not so "openly) and Malesors. I hate Albanians like you more then any of our other enemies. and youre always trying to cause religous conflicts that dont exist. you even compared Albania to Lebanon. thats how retarded you are. direct your anger where it belongs, then go to a Walmart or Walgreens, and purchase Rogain. and some rope.
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