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Post by albquietman on May 9, 2009 13:45:39 GMT -5
Religion is a big thing in Greece, so no matter what you say Basil, in Greece if you are not orthodox or if you do not believe at all, people look down on you like you are some strange creature from some distant planet...
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on May 9, 2009 14:02:25 GMT -5
Isn't there like a shrine almost everywhere in the Greek countryside?
Modern Greek identity is very interlinked with Orthodoxy, and the Church has played a great part in forming the national Greek identity and still plays a great role. It was also used as an instrument to claim territories outside of Greece where the populace wasn't ethnicaly Greek, under the pretense of Orthodox = Greek.
So, when we're say that Greeks are religious, or that their national identity is interlinked with religion, it doesn't mean you necessarely attend Church every sunday.
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Post by Kassandros on May 9, 2009 14:14:23 GMT -5
Teuta "Greeks tend indeed to identify everything that is Orthodox to Greek, especially when it comes to Albanians. Tell me, can a Greek be Muslim?" -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not sure its exactly the idea.. The closest Muslims to Greece geografically are the Turks... who were the occupiers of Balkans and Greece for 500 years. a Greek cannot be Muslim.. not because of the religion beliefs... but for the connotations to Turks. Thats the idea.. Do you want to remind you that among the most devoted countries in the western world on Palestinian cause are the Greeks. Also Egyptians have very good reputation among the Greeks. Since all of them are Muslims... and we like them... and they like us... your theory cannot be right.. Its not a religious issue for Greeks... its a national issue... "When I was in Greece and told them I am Albanian, the next question was: what religion are you? When I told them my religion (which by the way is what my father is and not what I believe in), their reaction was as if they were relieved to hear that I was not a Muslim!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Most propably I would ask you the same question. Have you ever wonder... if Greeks surf on the web... and have seen it full of Albanian "personalities" like Toskali, Ermir or Duke John? For good or for bad.. all Turkalbanians follow the same patenda as it seems and their connection link is the hate for Greece... and Greeks know it. So, whats the mystery of someone Greek ask you if your among them or among the others..? He/she explores if he can exchange 1-2 words with you or just ignore you... Again is not a religious issue. Its a national one.. "Some, dared as much as to tell me that I was Greek!!!! You had to see their disappointment on their eyes when I explained to them that I am not religious...I just happen to belong there...but it didn't change the fact that I was Albanian! What I read on their eyes was: "what a pity, you such a nice girl, to belong to Albanians"! Isn't it weird? " ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ You know my theory on Dorians.. Personally I believe that all south Albanians are somehow connected with the Greek tribes... ok.. maybe it only my theory... but in a private talk I had with some Albanians... they have the same feeling too.. Ok.. lets not discuss that since nobody can proove anything. Its just a personal opinion.. for the time being. "PS: let me be honest: there are no negative connotations when it comes to my comments addressed to you, for you are one of the few Greeks here I hold a great respect. You know it" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I know it. thanks. The respect is mutual.. By "negative" I didnt mean something bad... just something like "why you argue"... Sorry for my command of the english words..
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Post by Kassandros on May 9, 2009 14:17:23 GMT -5
AlbQ "Religion is a big thing in Greece, so no matter what you say Basil, in Greece if you are not orthodox or if you do not believe at all, people look down on you like you are some strange creature from some distant planet..." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Again is for the same reason. Its a national thing.. not a religious one. If you're a Muslim Palestinian nobody will look down on you. If you're a Muslim Albanian.... and since Greeks know their "good feelings"... they look down on you. Dont you find it normal?
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Post by Kassandros on May 9, 2009 14:22:18 GMT -5
Donnie "Isn't there like a shrine almost everywhere in the Greek countryside? Modern Greek identity is very interlinked with Orthodoxy, and the Church has played a great part in forming the national Greek identity and still plays a great role. It was also used as an instrument to claim territories outside of Greece where the populace wasn't ethnicaly Greek, under the pretense of Orthodox = Greek. " -------------------------------------------------------------- ..or... if your mind does not always use the worst idea... you can say that religion is what keeps nation united under our times where everybody wants small and easy to manipulate states... Again the criterion is not religious... is political and national. Greek will never kill for religion. Greeks will kill for Greece. Thats the big difference between the "religious Greeks" you try to portray.. "So, when we're say that Greeks are religious, or that their national identity is interlinked with religion, it doesn't mean you necessarely attend Church every sunday." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ There you go.! You start getting it... Its not the religion behind... its the nation! Two tottaly different things!
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
Amicus
It's Nice to be Important but It's more Important to be Nice!
Posts: 3,681
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on May 9, 2009 14:36:43 GMT -5
Religion is a big thing in Greece, and so why people do faking with politics when they already know that politic and politicians have screwed themselves and everything else. I'm the Only One Prince of Peace that can join peacefully east and west countries. I'm the Door to The Holy Infinite Life! Cheers Myself, Lord/God Sun_MYSUS Christ !!!!!
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Post by Kassandros on May 9, 2009 14:38:41 GMT -5
Mysus, one day we have to talk son..
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 9, 2009 15:09:49 GMT -5
I dont think Orthodox Albs need to prove that they hate Greeks... they often do more so than Muslim Albs themselves (Muslim Tosks from the south south being excluded since they suffered heavily from Greek paramilitaries in the beginning of the 20th century). Orthodox Albs often have a hatred of Greeks that borders the personal. Its as if they often personally feel the need to show it. Ive seen it in my own family among the Orthodox members. The people who burned Greek flags were also often Orthodox Albs.
Even those Albs who live next to minorities, like in Lunxheri, often call Greeks "enemies".
Most Albanians in Albania dislike Greeks particularly strongly nowdays. Particularly due to Greek racism more so than anything else. And personally, I think this is good. Youll often hear things like "Greece is beautiful. Greeks are scum". We should hate the enemy.
Now this is a topic about Berati, a city in north-southern Albania. Not about scummy Greeks. Now out of here!
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Post by Kassandros on May 9, 2009 15:17:35 GMT -5
"We should hate the enemy" ---------------------------------------- ..one day.. I have to talk with you too son...
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Post by albquietman on May 9, 2009 19:46:33 GMT -5
AlbQ "Religion is a big thing in Greece, so no matter what you say Basil, in Greece if you are not orthodox or if you do not believe at all, people look down on you like you are some strange creature from some distant planet..." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Again is for the same reason. Its a national thing.. not a religious one. If you're a Muslim Palestinian nobody will look down on you. If you're a Muslim Albanian.... and since Greeks know their "good feelings"... they look down on you. Dont you find it normal? Well, not only I do not find it normal Basil, but it's weird that you greeks like better a palestianian and not an albanian that is much closer to you, not only geographically, but genetically too. Thank God we do not have the same genes when it comes to that . It must be a greek thingy, because I've seen it myself when I was in Greece. When I met greeks, in the beginning of course they didn't know that I was albanian, and the conversion would go smooth, since my greek was as good as theirs. But when I told them that I am albanian, all of a sudden they would take a different position...it was sad and funy at the same time, and to tell you the truth, Greece showed me what brainwashing can do to the people...so it's not a national thing Basil, it is a brain thing...and it's called brainwashing in case you greeks don't know it .
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
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It's Nice to be Important but It's more Important to be Nice!
Posts: 3,681
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on May 9, 2009 23:15:06 GMT -5
But when I told greeks that I am albanian, all of a sudden they would take a different position... I think greece - albania - turkey should be united and join altogether. Greeks - Albanians - Turks look same that have the same traditions. We should rule the world!
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Post by Kassandros on May 10, 2009 4:46:32 GMT -5
AlbQ "Religion is a big thing in Greece, so no matter what you say Basil, in Greece if you are not orthodox or if you do not believe at all, people look down on you like you are some strange creature from some distant planet..." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Again is for the same reason. Its a national thing.. not a religious one. If you're a Muslim Palestinian nobody will look down on you. If you're a Muslim Albanian.... and since Greeks know their "good feelings"... they look down on you. Dont you find it normal? Well, not only I do not find it normal Basil, but it's weird that you greeks like better a palestianian and not an albanian that is much closer to you, not only geographically, but genetically too. Thank God we do not have the same genes when it comes to that . It must be a greek thingy, because I've seen it myself when I was in Greece. When I met greeks, in the beginning of course they didn't know that I was albanian, and the conversion would go smooth, since my greek was as good as theirs. But when I told them that I am albanian, all of a sudden they would take a different position...it was sad and funy at the same time, and to tell you the truth, Greece showed me what brainwashing can do to the people...so it's not a national thing Basil, it is a brain thing...and it's called brainwashing in case you greeks don't know it . You know mate this has to do with many reasons. Greece, as smaller country than Turkey who still has that agressive style, has suffered a lot. Palestinians are few. Have suffered from Israelis/US/UK. Egyptians are few. Have suffered from /Israel/US/UK policies. So, its more a natural instict to "protect" the "weak" ones even if that means to loose a game by not choosing the big boys... On the contrary, Albanians, although so close to Greeks, always, were with the big boys in any buttle. Name that buttle Ottoman occupation, WW2, PaxAmericana... whatever you want.... always they try to be with the "winners" without any ethical criterion. Also, Palestinians and Arabs in gererally are not surfing with nick names as "Greekhater" or "Greekkiller".. etc etc etc Unfortunately the above things make a percentage of Greek population having a bad feeling for Albanians. That percentage was huge 10 years ago. Today, in private talkings with friends, (..and after all Albanians criminals arrested ) I have see that trend to change slowly. I can speak for 50%-50% today. I'm sure the next 10-20 years the ones who dislike Albanians will be a small minority. That shift of trend cannot be categorized as brainwashed population. Brainwashed people.. dont change. Unfortunately again.. some Turkalbanians with their comments, make this shift of percentage move slower than it should... but... finally we know it will minimized. That is what the trend shows.. PS. I always believed the 1st generation of immigrants is the one that suffers. All the Albanians with children I know are telling me the same thing; "I have the money to go back now... but kids dont want even to discuss it. They feel they belong here. They dont want to loose Greece, Greek way of life and Greek friends. They have a Greek life now" I thing that means something.... A deep hating and racist society for Albanians as you want to portray Greece...doesnt have these results.. You'll see by you own eyes... just wait 10-20 years. Of course, that has to do also with the political position of Albania the next years. If Albania starts that stupid rhetoric of "Chameria" or "lets give our harbors to our friendly Turkish military ships" and stuff like that.... it will be far more difficult.
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 11, 2009 1:40:30 GMT -5
Whether or not Albania opens its port to Turkey should be none of Greece's business. Especially since Albania is not in anyway hostile to our snake-like southern neighbor. You play on your own fears and perceptions. But thats fine. Turks and Albs will continue to be friends... no brothers and Greece will have to live with such a reality... outside of those who live in Greece, few even care to think about you people (myself included) outside of such forums. And the rhetoric of "Chameria" is not stupid so long as you people use the "stupid" rhetoric of Vorios Ipiros. We Albs have a thing... we really dont like hypocrisy, not at all. I doubt, maybe you Greeks think we do, but we dont. Sorry. And an interesting thing. When most Albs I have spoken with hear of Serb-Greek friendship or brotherhood they say "Thats natural, their Orthodox... their practically the same". When a Greek hears of something similar between Turks and Albs, they groan, become angry, insult... Why is that? You people are full of complexes.
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Post by Kassandros on May 11, 2009 12:48:55 GMT -5
Toskali "Whether or not Albania opens its port to Turkey should be none of Greece's business" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- you have no idea of world politics.. dont you? OFCOURSE it is Greece's business Einstein! Do you believe that Turkish ...military... ships sourounding Greece... its not our business? Are you from Mars..? Be friends if you want... but military ships.. is a different thing. It is our business as it will be YOUR business the consequnces if you ally for one more time with the big boy against Greece. "And an interesting thing. When most Albs I have spoken with hear of Serb-Greek friendship or brotherhood they say "Thats natural, their Orthodox... their practically the same". When a Greek hears of something similar between Turks and Albs, they groan, become angry, insult... Why is that? You people are full of complexes" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ah... thats natural... that is why Greek F-16s bombed Tirana in order to help Serbia. Now I get it... omg...! Toskali... be a Turk ... be a Sultan.. .be whatever you want... allying military with a country against Greece... for one more time.... has consequences... and we never forget to remind them to the ones who forgot them. You know that.. dont you..? Even if 1 Greek remains alive.. he will take the appropriate revenge even after 100 years.... and nobody guarantees to you that after 100 years the big boy will be around. On the other hand... Greeks will be around... and we have strong memory... PS. ...from all my post...the part that reffers to your Turkish connection is what inspired you to write down?
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 11, 2009 13:23:10 GMT -5
If Greece had bmbed Tirana in 1999(which technically was completely disconnected from the Kosova war) then she would be destroyed by EU and UN. No, Greece did her part by opposing the bombing of Belgrade, she showed her faith to the Serbs by her help. And as I said, its natural. I only hope Albania is that faithful to her Turkish brothers as they were to us during the Kosova war, if is such a thing happens, but with the ciurrent politicians, I doubt it. You show it today by being ine of the obstinate EU members not to recognize Kosova...
And we all know the reason for all this: support for your Orthodox brethren.
And again, stop making yourself the center of attention. Turkey wants to train and help Albania, thats why she has a naval base at Pashalimani ( I would support one in Himara as well though). It is a Nato funded port and links to cultural brothers and NATO allies. And stop speaking like a diplomat.
And we have a strong memory as well. Many Albs can tell you who their greatgrandfathers were for the last 500 years... can you guys tell us?
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on May 11, 2009 13:30:17 GMT -5
Has Spain and France recognized Kosovo?
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 11, 2009 13:35:05 GMT -5
France: Yes, Sarkozy has been one of the most outspoken advocates of Kosova's independence. Even the French right-wing parties have not been all too opposed and they are known for their ravid Islamophobia
Spain, Greece, Slovakia, Cyprus (pseuo-state), Romania are the opposed states. Of all these, Greece is the only one that does not have any real territorial "precedent" fear... you guys do it out of pure love for your Serb brothers (although I can say Romania does have significant Orthodox brotherhood connections with Serbs as well). And as I said, thats fine. I support it actually.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on May 11, 2009 13:42:29 GMT -5
I don't think Greece did it for the love of the Serbs.... They just did it ...cause they can....
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 11, 2009 13:56:09 GMT -5
Maybe, who cares, they did it and I welcome it. The more Albanians are alienated from your shitty people, the better. The more Greece does to piss us off, the happier I become. Please, elect nationalists who will want to revive Northern Epirus, mistreat Alb migrants, burn our flags.
To us Albs who want nothing to do with your country, it makes us smile.
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Post by Kastorianos on May 11, 2009 16:13:46 GMT -5
Haha Canari tell me what shall we do with him? ;D
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