Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Feb 5, 2010 23:36:12 GMT -5
Skopje is getting a long overdue renovation. Here is a preview of what it will look like in four years time. And don't think that this is some fantasy either, work on many of the buildings has already begun. Below is a picture of the building at 2:40 & 3:45 in the video
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Feb 5, 2010 23:38:29 GMT -5
You can argue that some of the buildings are ugly (and I definitely think there are too many statues) but I'm telling you guy's, Macedonia is going places. It's still poor and relatively backward in places, but it has true potential. I saw that potential when I visited last year and I'm glad to see it start to happen.
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Post by insomniac on Feb 6, 2010 2:23:05 GMT -5
I just heard about this in the news today. Albanians from Macedonia are not too happy with the plan.They are against the constructions of religious building in the city center. Radio Free Europe www.evropaelire.org/content/article/1950044.html
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Post by mystery on Feb 6, 2010 19:50:25 GMT -5
You can argue that some of the buildings are ugly (and I definitely think there are too many statues) but I'm telling you guy's, Macedonia is going places. It's still poor and relatively backward in places, but it has true potential. I saw that potential when I visited last year and I'm glad to see it start to happen. How many places besides Skopje did you go to? The maks are so obsessed with Phillip/Alexander that it's ruining the country.. Instead of all these fantasy buildings fix up the roads in some other the other towns/cities especially in the Albanian populated areas.
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Post by L0gjICK on Feb 6, 2010 20:16:23 GMT -5
The church is nothing more then a symbol that the Muslim Albanians aren't welcome. The cross that can be seen across Shkup is another symbol of this message.
Personally, I don't agree with the Albanians whom are asking for a Mosque to be built because such religious institutions are all over Macedonia. Instead I wish they were more politically savy and asked for an Albanian culture center of some sort. Maybe a library? Anything but a Mosque which is a bad political move that will be looked down by Westerners.
Shqiptaret e Maqedonis s'kan buk per hanger po kerkojn Xhamijat. Ta qifsha mentalitetin e Katundaret.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Feb 6, 2010 21:03:11 GMT -5
Xhamia dhe Islami eshte bere kultura e tyre neper zonat ku jan te rrethuar nga Krishteret Slav.
What exactly are the renovations supposed to add to?
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Feb 6, 2010 21:38:36 GMT -5
What exactly are the renovations supposed to add to? Employment for one, because someone has to build those buildings. Also tourism because people will start to visit, etc. Ever since the earthquake in 1963, Skopje was never really rebuilt. It's about time it was. The younger generation of Macedonians are far more aware of the world around them thanks to the Internet and globalisation. They know what they must do to catch up with the living standards of the rest of Europe. This is a big step towards that. Plus, I think this could be just the start. Who knows how many more buildings they will build by 2020.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Feb 6, 2010 23:00:14 GMT -5
Nikola, l'm uncomfortable with Insomniac's comment above, what do you think about this?
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Feb 7, 2010 1:29:32 GMT -5
Nikola, l'm uncomfortable with Insomniac's comment above, what do you think about this? There will always be someone who will complain Novi. And as much as I personally don't like mosques, Albanians should have a say in the development of Skopje. The Albanians in Macedonia aren't going anywhere, so it would make more sense to integrate them into society rather than exclude them. If the condition was they must build a mosque as well as the church, they should just not build either at all.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Feb 7, 2010 1:41:26 GMT -5
Albanians will never integrate into Macedonia. Ever. Your right, they arent going anywhere... now, however the future is always uncertain. So long as their maintain their separate identity and continue to live in virtual segregation from the rest of the population, the chances are higher than with assimilation.
Macedonia is not their nation, Albania is and in the end, whether today, tomorow, or 100 years from now, only unification will work. And this will be at whatever cost.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Feb 7, 2010 1:53:36 GMT -5
Albanians will never integrate into Macedonia. Ever. Your right, they arent going anywhere... now, however the future is always uncertain. So long as their maintain their separate identity and continue to live in virtual segregation from the rest of the population, the chances are higher than with assimilation. Macedonia is not their nation, Albania is and in the end, whether today, tomorow, or 100 years from now, only unification will work. And this will be at whatever cost. As long as people like you hold such views, there will never be peace and stability in the Balkans. Personally, I think FY Macedonia will need to become a kind of Switzerland of the Balkans. In that, Switzerland is made up of Germans, Italians and French, all living together in harmony; so too Macedonia will have to get all it's citizens to live together. I know that's not a popular view with hardcore nationalists but it's the only way to prosperity in the region in my opinion.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Feb 7, 2010 2:15:39 GMT -5
The Swiss have hundreds and hundreds of years of coexistance. It works because they have been with eachother longer than with the other groups. Switzerland has had an identity of its own. The people there may be German, French or Italian, however they view themselves as Swiss because of territorial history. It would be very very hard to do the same with the Balkans. Albanians in Tetova have more contact with neighboring Kosovo and Albania than Skopje's central government not to mention that 'Macedonian' remains an ethnic name which Albanians, nor any other non-Slavic Christian, will pick up. There simply is not enough history and precedent to warrant a Swiss type form. The Albanians of Macedonia do not feel like they are a part of the country, identity or people. They have their own world and so long as this world exists and the wish to be connected with neighboring Albania exists... so will their separation from the rest of the country.
Personally, I would rather see instability resolve the existing problems before stability creates an undesired status qup.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Feb 7, 2010 6:33:00 GMT -5
So you would rather some kind of war instead of peace. I hope you never enter into politics.
Btw, I'm not saying that Albanians and Macedonians should be merging into one people. Albanians should still stay Albanian, and Macedonians the same. I just think Macedonians need to start learning the Albanian language, and vice versa, as a first step to be able to get along better.
And even if we accept that Slavs arrived in the Balkans, they have still been there for more than one thousand years. So we have all co-existed together for a very, very long time.
Anyway, whatever.
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Post by L0gjICK on Feb 7, 2010 9:16:23 GMT -5
Multi-ethnic states fail in the Balkans. They failed with Yugoslavia, they'll fail with the Serbian minority in Kosova and it will fail with Macedonia. Ultra-nationalism is too high for sides to live with one another.
There's a reason why the two sides in Macedonia live on different sides of the city, have their own universities and have minimal contact with one another. We simply can not co-exist with one another which explains why intermarriages between Orthodox Slavs and Muslim Albanians are extremely low. I've read sources claim as up to 1%.
A Federal state is the best approach for the country........the MANU actually proposed a territorial exchange during 2001. The only issue is what happens with parts that are mixed i.e. Shkup, Kercova, Kumanovo and so forth.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Feb 7, 2010 13:30:50 GMT -5
So you would rather some kind of war instead of peace. I hope you never enter into politics. Btw, I'm not saying that Albanians and Macedonians should be merging into one people. Albanians should still stay Albanian, and Macedonians the same. I just think Macedonians need to start learning the Albanian language, and vice versa, as a first step to be able to get along better. And even if we accept that Slavs arrived in the Balkans, they have still been there for more than one thousand years. So we have all co-existed together for a very, very long time. Anyway, whatever. I would never promote my people taking an action that would blame the start of a war on them... ever. Thats a horrible charge and it would certainly result in the extinction of Albanians from the given territory. What I am saying is that they will have a sufficiently large distance from total assimilation into the Macedonian state so that should the situation find them where they can make a move without seeming to be aggressors... they will take it. War finds Balkan people, generally not vice versa.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Feb 7, 2010 18:36:37 GMT -5
"There will always be someone who will complain Novi. And as much as I personally don't like mosques, Albanians should have a say in the development of Skopje. The Albanians in Macedonia aren't going anywhere, so it would make more sense to integrate them into society rather than exclude them. If the condition was they must build a mosque as well as the church, they should just not build either at all." Nikola, brate listen, Toski above told you the truth, he spat out the obivious to you. Do you understand that the Albanians only have one goal and that is to take your territory, they all *hate* you. These people don't want to really integrate into the society, they only tolerate it for a certain period until they have enough power to kick your backside. Look at Serbia, they are still doing the same stupid errors today as the commies were doing back 50 years ago because they are trying to uuuuunderstand them. Give you an example, the commie government granted albs of kosovo rights to have their universities etc...now today in southern serbia outside of kosovo, the serbian government has now rewarded albs to have their own schools again!......they haven't freaken learnt of their past mistakes but keep insisting that we should uuuuunderstand them
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Post by insomniac on Feb 7, 2010 20:40:49 GMT -5
I have no problem with Slavs and Albanian sharing their country Macedonia on the Swiss model.
However, Macedonia is far apart from being a tolerant, emancipated state.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Feb 8, 2010 0:01:45 GMT -5
Nikola, brate listen, Toski above told you the truth, he spat out the obivious to you. Do you understand that the Albanians only have one goal and that is to take your territory, they all *hate* you. These people don't want to really integrate into the society, they only tolerate it for a certain period until they have enough power to kick your backside. Look at Serbia, they are still doing the same stupid errors today as the commies were doing back 50 years ago because they are trying to uuuuunderstand them. Give you an example, the commie government granted albs of kosovo rights to have their universities etc...now today in southern serbia outside of kosovo, the serbian government has now rewarded albs to have their own schools again!......they haven't freaken learnt of their past mistakes but keep insisting that we should uuuuunderstand them I'm beginning to think you might be correct Novi. But we can always hope.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Feb 8, 2010 0:30:56 GMT -5
^ i'm telling you man thats what they are planning to do. They only have a goal to reach their dream of greater albania.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Feb 8, 2010 5:09:44 GMT -5
The center of Strumica is getting a renovation too, with underground streets and parking.
I hear Bitola will get a freshen up too. The whole country seems to be rising from the ashes.
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