Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Feb 8, 2011 10:35:33 GMT -5
Well said Ljubotan. f**k Serbs, they are criminals and thieves of the proud Bulgarian History, an empire which stretched from the Volga river to the Adriatc, and included 3 times the size of the known world at the time, + all adjacent galaxies. Do you agree with me now Aziz? Am i clever enough ? Will you add a "well said" for me now? IDIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT
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ivo
Amicus
Posts: 2,712
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Post by ivo on Feb 8, 2011 10:39:48 GMT -5
^ Църкай мишкаааа
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Feb 8, 2011 10:41:28 GMT -5
Only Makedonian (Serbian) or English pls... Ukranian is not allowed ;D
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Feb 8, 2011 10:44:14 GMT -5
Anyway idiot, talking about mice, i think the perfect mouse pad for you would be this one: LMAO!!
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Post by rusebg on Feb 8, 2011 10:58:48 GMT -5
And Malakian obviously, in your case.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 8, 2011 13:34:57 GMT -5
kroraina's evidence wasn't reputable...it stated also Milos Obilic to be the King of Hercegovina which we all know wasn't true.
Anyone who doubts Marko's 100% Serb origin, go ahead and Wiki him. He is called "Kraljevic" because was the son of Serb king Vukasin. And technically inherited the crown of the Serbian Empire.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Feb 8, 2011 13:45:08 GMT -5
Marko was Serb. A fact. He ruled over Bulgarians in Macedonia. A fact. He is a Serb but he can be described as a Bulgarian ruler, because he ruled Bulgarians. I ve read somewhere that the Krali Marko in Bulgarian folkore is indeed based on the Serb Marko that ruled over the Bulgarians in Macedonia, but he also had a lot of features of the Thracian hourseman (the cult predated christianity and the Bulgarian kingdome).
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Feb 8, 2011 13:49:59 GMT -5
Êðàëè Ìàðêî è áúëãàðñêèÿ ãåðîè÷åí åïîñ Ìèðîñëàâ Àâðàìîâ  ïåñíèòå ìîãàò äà ñå ðàçãðàíè÷àò òðè îñíîâíè èñòîðè÷åñêè ïëàñòà: 1.Ìèòè÷åñêèÿò, êîéòî ïðåñúçäàâà ìèòîâåòå îò äðåâíîñòòà, à Êðàëè Ìàðêî å çàìåíèë íÿêîè îò äðåâíèòå ãåðîè èëè áîãîâå – Õåðàêúë, Õåêòîð, Çåâñ è ò.í 2.Ñðåäíîâåêîâíèÿò – îáõâàùàù ïåñíè ñ ìîòèâè è îáðàçè îò èñòîðè÷åñêîòî âðåìå ïðåäè êðàë Ìàðêî. 3.Èñòîðè÷åñêèÿò íàðîäíî – áîð÷åñêè ïëàñò, îòðàçÿâàù ñúáèòèÿ îò äåéñòâèòåëíèÿ æèâîò íà ãåðîÿ – êðàë Ìàðêî /1370 – 1395/ è äåñåòèëåòèÿòà ñëåä ñìúðòòà ìó, îïèñâàùè áîðáàòà íà áàëêàíñêèòå íàðîäè ñ îñìàíöèòå. Ïåñíèòå îò ìèòè÷åñêèÿ ïëàñò, ìàêàð è ìàëîáðîéíè, ñà ïðÿêî ñâúðçàíè ñ ïðåäñòàâàòà çà ñâðúõåñòåñòâåíàòà ñèëà íà Êðàëè Ìàðêî. Òîé ÿ ïîëó÷àâà êàòî ìîì÷å. Âåäíúæ ðàçõîæäàéêè ñå ïî Ïèðèí ïëàíèíà âèæäà ëþëêà, à â íåÿ ìàëêà ñàìîäèâà, íàïå÷åíà îò ñëúíöåòî.  åäíè âàðèàíòè íà ïåñåíòà òîé è ïðàâè ñÿíêà ñ òÿëîòî ñè, à â äðóãè ÿ îõëàæäà ñ âîäà. Çà äà ìó ñå îòáëàãîäàðè, âúðíàëàòà ñå ïðè ëþëêàòà Âèëà ñàìîäèâà ìó äàâà äà ñó÷å çà äà ñå íàõðàíè è îò òàì Êðàëè Ìàðêî ïîëó÷àâà ñèëàòà ñè. Ïî òàêúâ íà÷èí òîé ñòàâà ïîáðàòèì ñ Ãþðãÿ ñàìîäèâà /äåòåíöåòî â ëþëêàòà/, êîÿòî ìó ïîìàãà â êðèòè÷íè ñèòóàöèè. Òîçè ìîìåíò å õàðàêòåðåí çà êëàñè÷åñêèÿ äðåâíîãðúöêè åïîñ, êúäåòî ãåðîÿò ñå íàìèðà ïîä ïîñòîÿííîòî ïîêðîâèòåëñòâî íà íÿêîé áîã èëè áîãèíÿ. Ñðåä àòðèáóòèòå íà Êðàëè Ìàðêî, îñâåí íåîáèêíîâåíàòà ñèëà, ñà íåãîâèÿ êîí è íåãîâèÿ ìå÷. Ñ òÿõ òîé ñå ñíàáäÿâà îòíîâî áëàãîäàðåíèå íà ñàìîäèâàòà. Ïî íåéíî óêàçàíèå òîé îòèâà ïðè ñèíüîòî åçåðî, êà÷âà ñå íà åäíî êðèâî äúðâî è ÷àêà êîíÿ ìó äà äîéäå. Êîãàòî êîíÿò èäâà „çà äà ïî÷åøå ëþòèòå ñè ðàíè” Ìàðêî ñêà÷à âúðõó íåãî è ñ ìúêà óñïÿâà äà ñå çàäúðæè. Òîâà íå å îáèêíîâåí êîí, òîâà å êîí þíàê, ñèëåí ïî÷òè êîëêîòî Êðàëè Ìàðêî. Çàòîâà áîðáàòà íà Êðàëè Ìàðêî ñ êîíÿ ñå ðàâíÿâà íà ïîäâèã. Íàêðàÿ ñëåä êàòî ñå å èçòîùèë òîòàëíî êîíÿò êàçâà:”Àç ñúì þíàê, àìà òè ñè ïî-þíàê îò ìåíå// òè íà ìåíå ãîñïîäàð êå áèäåø.”. Îñâåí, ÷å ïîìàãà íà Êðàëè Ìàðêî â áèòêèòå, êîíÿò å è ìíîãî óìåí. Òîé äàâà öåííè ñúâåòè â êðèòè÷íè ìîìåíòè íà ñâîÿ ãîñïîäàð. Òîé å êîí øåñòîêðèëåö, êîéòî ìîæå äà ëèòíå äî ÿñíèÿ ìåñåö. Ïðåäñòàâàòà íà Êðàëè Ìàðêî êàòî êîííèê ãî ñâúðçâà íå òîëêîâà ñ äðåâíîãðúöêèòå ìèòîâå, êîëêîòî ñ òðàêèéñêàòà ìèòîëîãèÿ. Òðàêèéñêèòå öàðå âèíàãè ñà áèëè ïðåäñòàâÿíè êàòî êîííèöè îò ïúðâîòî èì ñïîìåíàâàíå â Èëèàäà, ïðåç ìíîãîáðîéíèòå èçîáðàæåíèÿ íà òðàêèéñêèÿ öàð êîííèê âúðõó ñúêðîâèùàòà íàìåðåíè â íàøèòå çåìè, äî ïîÿâàòà íà îáðî÷íèòå ïëî÷êè íà òðàêèéñêèÿ êîííèê ïðåç ðèìñêàòà åïîõà. historika.media.officelive.com/default.aspx
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Feb 8, 2011 13:53:34 GMT -5
Dawn is breaking But such a dawn as you've never seen. The dawn is a young man riding on a horse. The horse breathes and makes the dawn. The moon is a ring on the young man’s finger, And his weapons are small stars. (Bulgarian ritual song for a young unmarried man) Breathing The Dawn is a gloriously dark tale about the legendary hero, Krali Marko and his magical horse, Sharkoliya, set in a golden age when anything was possible. They thunder through a mythic landscape where fierce women ride the whirlwinds, children ride on dreams and nightmares, and sparks fly from Sharkoliya's hooves. But can black Mother Earth hold Krali Marko’s unbridled power? There is a price to pay, for there can be no hero without a wound, and no warrior without a death. With a spellbinding mix of storytelling, ritual, evocative music and stunning Bulgarian vocals, Breathing The Dawn is a hymn to the spirit of youth and a golden gift from the dark-edged heart of Bulgarian myth and folklore. Leap into the saddle and ride.... (For adults. Not recommended for children under 10) For this programme, A Spell In Time is joined by Bulgarian kaval and gaida player, Galen Nikolov. For background notes on Krali Marko and Horse Mythology see below. A Spell In Time gratefully acknowledges the support of the Arts Council England Lottery Programme and The British Bulgarian Friendship Society. Horse figure from an ancient Thracian rhyton Background Notes Once upon a time horses were sacred. They were the companions of heroes, and galloped between the worlds bearing the gifts of life and death. The cult of the horse was deeply rooted in Bulgaria’s ancestral Thracian, Slavic and Proto-Bulgarian cultures, and has left a rich legacy in the country’s traditional tales and folklore. The ancient Thracians practised horse burial and sacrifice and revered the Thracian Horseman god, Hero, son and lover of the great mother goddess, Bendis. He was both the sun and the ruler of the nether world, bringer of life, death and fertility. The horse was sacred to both the Slavs and to the nomadic Proto-Bulgarians, who founded the first Bulgarian kingdom in the Balkans under Khan Asparuh in 681 AD. The Proto-Bulgarians drank mares’ milk, divined with horse’s entrails, and their banner was a horse tail upon a spear. The horse was sacred to their sky god, Tangra. After the adoption of Christianity in the 9th century, the Thracian Horseman god was reincarnated in the Christian figure of St George, the dragon slayer, seen as the bringer of summer and fertility. St Dimiter, another warrior saint, is St George's twin brother and the bringer of winter. On 26th October (Dimitrovden) he rides his red horse across the sky, heralding the start of winter. When he shakes his beard, snow falls. The medieval hero, Krali Marko on his horse Sharkoliya is also a mythological descendent of the Thracian Horseman. Most of the texts for Breathing The Dawn are drawn from the fragmented epic cycle about the hero. King Marko - Krali Marko or Marko Kraleviti - was a real historical figure living around the 14th century AD, who later became overlaid with earlier mythologies. Marko was a Serb, son of Vulkashin. He ruled from the fortified town of Prilep, now in Macedonia, over a kingdom then inhabited by ethnic Bulgarians. The tales about him contain elements that go back to Thracian times. See Background to Bulgarian Myth and Folklore for more on Bulgaria's ancestral cultures. Breathing The Dawn is based on our translations of Bulgarian heroic epics, folk ballads and traditional tales. We acknowledge our debt to those who told these stories and to the Bulgarian folklorists who collected and recorded their narratives as a gift to the future. This material is largely unknown outside Bulgaria, and A Spell In Time’s work in translating and performing it is unique. The company brings to British audiences for the first time a distillation of Bulgarian traditional culture that offers an alternative insight into shared human experiences. www.spellintime.fsnet.co.uk/Shows_Section_BTD.htm
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Post by terroreign on Feb 8, 2011 17:38:49 GMT -5
Marko was Serb. A fact.
Spot on. Ioan thank you for your sincerity here.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Feb 9, 2011 1:22:39 GMT -5
^ Krivo, he was spot on regarding Marko's ethnicity but he wasn't spot on regarding the true identity of the slavs in vardar.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Feb 9, 2011 1:40:22 GMT -5
"Just stop claiming Makedonia and Serbia and i can assure you that Novi will not say a word against you, ever again.
DEAL?"
Pyrro, they are the dumbest people on planet earth you can't reason with them. They are in Samuil nostalgia mode, which wasn't even a pure turkish empire because they ruled over serbs as well.
I see Ljubotan making comments about them not knowing etc...well, he doesn't even know that his ancestors from vardar even made pilgrimages to serbian monasteries in kosovo (like the muslims regarding mecca) and even other holy serbian monasteries elsewhere. Does he even know that TITO confiscated serbian monasteries in vardar, locked them up and promoted a new identity, deserbianising the population even further, since the BuLgari did the first round of de-serbianising.
I also see Ljubotan making comments about slava etc...well, protogerov and his satanic henchmen killed serbs whoever owned up to having a slava, the serbian slava was completely wiped out in certain regions of vardar due to garbage BuLgari and their EXARCHOS.
Ljubotan and the vardarians will never escape their old serbian ancestry (you can run but you can never hide). They certainly can escape BuLgarski propaganda thats for sure.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Feb 9, 2011 3:12:41 GMT -5
Ljubotan, even the slavs who migrated from Greece underwent some form of Tito Vardarisation, read:
Serbian Colony in Thessalonica
Personal Names and Ethnic Markers in Registers (1896-1945) Key words: Serbs in Thessalonica, baptism, name and family name, religious conversion, Mace-donian influence The church of Saint Sava is located at center of Thessalonica; from 1896, the church served as a parish church for Serbian population. The church Register from 1896-1945 is used in this paper. The Serbs from Thessalonica were mostly craftsmen, bankers and traders. All engaged in business that required the knowledge of Greek language, but still had a need for Serbian parish and church services in Serbian language. And although Serbian, the parish was also open to other ethnic groups. For example, Russians used its services for baptism, and there are data indi- cating that a certain proportion of Jews, Muslims, Protestant and Catholics got converted in the church, confirming its missionary dimension. These individuals kept their first names even after the conversions. The Serbs named their children in Serbian fashion, not Greek. However, the Serbs from Thessalonica who came to ex-Yugoslav republic of Macedonia, after WW II, encountered a different situation. Macedonian influence is evident in their first and last names. For instance, name Andjelija becomes Anga, and last name Filipovic becomes Filipovski. The respected parents were Serbs. There is only one case where an adopted Greek, raised by Serbs in Thessalonica, had changed his first and last name in Macedonian fashion. The phenomenon assumes preservation of Serbian names in ethnically totally different environment, such as Greece, and the absence of the same in ethnically similar environment such as Macedonia.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Feb 9, 2011 3:34:18 GMT -5
A custom or a piligrimage to a serbian monestery is not a sign of ethnicity while a language and how foreighers desribed the people and how the people described themselves is a sure sign of ethnicity. I understand why novi is so cought up on slava and other things that can be easily aquired (just look how many Bulgarians celebrate saint valentine but last I checked we are not catholics or italian or spanish or french), but I hope the more rational people here like Krivo are still making fair assumption on what indeed is the clear sign of ethnicity. A custom isnt if the language is Bulgarian. It could be justification for Novi, in his case understandably. Krivo, Markos ethnicity is well attested: he was of the Serbian nobility - it is well attested, but he ruled over Bulgarians and he himself described as ruler of serbs, greeks and and of the Western Provinces (I m guessing he meant the western provinces of Bulgaria, because obviously where he ruled was not western Serbia). Also due to the fact that he ruled over Bulgarians foreign authors were calling him ruler of Bulgaria.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Feb 9, 2011 3:35:34 GMT -5
Solun i Krf ostrvo !! Svijeta Mjesta za srba!!
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Feb 9, 2011 3:36:53 GMT -5
Solun is a saint place for Bulgarians. In the Solun dialect of Bulgarian the first slavic literature was written.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Feb 9, 2011 3:37:42 GMT -5
Novi bro i know you hate this, but for a moment "funk" Makedonia and the Serbs there.
JUST COME TO CENTRAL GREECE (METERORA) AND WATCH WHO BUILT THE GREATEST CHURCHES/MONASTERIES THERE........
I have been there and everything around it, even the surnames of the people/toponyms were SERBIAN.
If Serbs left *THAT* footprint in Greece, i cannot imagine the mark they should have left in Makedonia.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Feb 9, 2011 3:39:15 GMT -5
Solun is a saint place for Bulgarians. In the Solun dialect of Bulgarian the first slavic literature was written. This dialect was closer to modern Slovenian/Serbian than anything Bulgarian.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 9, 2011 3:51:37 GMT -5
Ioan Slava isn't something easily acquired, as you think. It's comparable to Bulgarians celebrating Yom Kippur. You need to have a family saint which was passed down from your father since his ancestor's initial baptism from paganism, and then know all the special rituals with it. (Each saint has little distinguishing customs).
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Post by Novi Pazar on Feb 9, 2011 3:57:03 GMT -5
^ stupid BuLgarin above Pyrro speaks about the Thessaloniki dialect (slavic) as BuLgarski; first off, they never reached the city with their empires and secondly the dialect then was nothing like modern BuLgarski, it was known as the language of the slavs then that all balkan slavs spoke, and lastly, pockets of slavic (south balkans) was recorded to being closer to original proto-slavic than all slavic languages, next closest to proto-slavic is slovenian. BuLgarski is considered furthest from proto-slavic and later OCS.
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