Albanians are not Illyrian

[missanthropology58]

Just because I don't live in Lebanon anymore and my family are Turks from the Balkans and Caucasus doesn't mean that you're White and Indo European you are still a scar and you have nothing you heard more goats then a Turk a Lebanese or even a Greek or a Serb

[missanthropology58]

Albanians are dirty Arabs Albanians are Turks Albanians are not WHITE

[Shqipni13]

^I got dick over here. Get on your knees.

[rex362]

we were not just Illyrians but also Pelasgian


There is record of slavs entering balkans ....

There is record of so called Greeks entering (many times over and over )

*so called greeks bcs Greek is just an Idea ..not a race
*fyi.... slavism is more by far a race then greek ever can be /pyrros would agree with that one ....true that !



But there is no record of Albanians entering ....why ? bcs we were here

as Plelasagians then after 1/2 our populations left toward the east (in Italy they are the called Etruscans and our elite of Pelasgians ) bcs of more newcomers ...then we started calling ourselves Illyrians ....


THE WORD ITSELF ILYRIAN/ILYR/ILIR has FULL ALBANIAN MEANING

[rex362]

and then again....


It is high treason for a Greek or Serb to acknowledge Albanians as descendants of the Illyrians...It keeps their conception of a Quasi Genetic unity of each of their races together -Fact-




true that !

[uz]

yes b/c we all know the Albanians appeared out of thin-air. lol

even tho the earliest record of anything Albanian was when? 1200, 1500, 1900 ? lol

[srbobran]

Do sources of exist of Albanians self-identifying as Illyrians before 1912 when the Austrians started advocating their supposed Illyrian origins?

[uz]

I wonder if the Austrians had any motive in spreading those myths...

[rex362]

Nov 3, 2011 14:49:43 GMT -5 @uz said:

yes b/c we all know the Albanians appeared out of thin-air. lol

even tho the earliest record of anything Albanian was when? 1200, 1500, 1900 ? lol

pre 1200 ?

who had time to write about things when being hoarded with slavs and greeks ....

and why would the slavs or greeks write about the owners of the lands they were raping and stealing to call there own one day .....and here we are


besides indigenous people like us and like the American natives for example do not need to write down anything that we had or do ....little did we know you people were coming .....thieves write and erect things to show ownership

[rex362]

ALBA ....White = Pure in Latin


or to be more exact I should say the Pelasgian in Latin (Etruscan/Pelasgian connection)

[peakbalkan]

Nov 3, 2011 16:54:58 GMT -5 srbobran said:

Do sources of exist of Albanians self-identifying as Illyrians before 1912 when the Austrians started advocating their supposed Illyrian origins?

These sort of comments have nothing to do with the issue. The issue is not when or why Albanians began to identify with the Illyrians, which is a subjective experience, but whether they actually are the descendants of the elusive Illyrians, from an objective viewpoint.

I could easily say that Serbs are inherently motivated to propagate the myth of the Albanians as primitive outsiders and opportunistic colonizers because if the Albanians were the descendants of a pre-Slavic Balkan population it would reinforce their (the Albanian) claim over Kosovo. It’s the simplest rule of Balkan ‘logic’ to say “I was here first, therefore I stay and you go”.

However, with regard to the issue at hand – the ‘alleged’ Illyrian origins of the Albanians – what matters is what can be proven or what can be logically derived from available evidence, or lack of evidence –as the case may be.

[rex362]

*Our Geographic location ....or whats left of it today alone proves much

*Our language still mostly intact proves it .....

*No proof of us entering at anytime is Proof in the pudding .....

[rex362]

the historical politics of today that slavs and greeks play is the same they both played the day the two respectively entered with their left foot upon the balkans .......


good luck

[uz]

Nov 3, 2011 17:46:33 GMT -5 rex362 said:

*Our Geographic location ....or whats left of it today alone proves much

*Our language still mostly intact proves it .....

*No proof of us entering at anytime is Proof in the pudding .....

The first two arguments can also refer to Serbs as being descendants of the Illyrians.

[srbobran]

These sort of comments have nothing to do with the issue. The issue is not when or why Albanians began to identify with the Illyrians, which is a subjective experience, but whether they actually are the descendants of the elusive Illyrians, from an objective viewpoint.

I could easily say that Serbs are inherently motivated to propagate the myth of the Albanians as primitive outsiders and opportunistic colonizers because if the Albanians were the descendants of a pre-Slavic Balkan population it would reinforce their (the Albanian) claim over Kosovo. It’s the simplest rule of Balkan ‘logic’ to say “I was here first, therefore I stay and you go”.

However, with regard to the issue at hand – the ‘alleged’ Illyrian origins of the Albanians – what matters is what can be proven or what can be logically derived from available evidence, or lack of evidence –as the case may be.

Read more: illyria.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ilirijaillyrikonillyria&action=display&thread=33297&page=6#ixzz1cgoq1QMe

Pretty sure Albanians use that "Balkan logic" in exactly the same way Serbs do.

All I'm saying is Albanians have no right to claim the achievements and legacy of the ancient Illyrians. Its so artificial.

[rex362]

Nov 3, 2011 18:05:32 GMT -5 @uz said:

Nov 3, 2011 17:46:33 GMT -5 rex362 said:

*Our Geographic location ....or whats left of it today alone proves much

*Our language still mostly intact proves it .....

*No proof of us entering at anytime is Proof in the pudding .....

The first two arguments can also refer to Serbs as being descendants of the Illyrians.

yes but the difference is that you are recorded newcomers to the balkans .....bad weather and agriculture in Carpathian region screwed us

[rex362]

Historical evidence links present-day Albanians directly with the Illyrians, Trojans, Thracians, Dalmatians and the ancient tribes of Epirus. Despite all the efforts of politically committed researchers over past few decades, it is difficult to dispute this proposition.

Yugoslavia and after: a study in fragmentation, despair and rebirth, David A. Dyker, Ivan Vejvoda, Longman, 1996, p. 236





"The Albanians are descendants of the ancient Illyrians. who lived in central Albania Europe and migrated southward to the Gulf of Arta in northern Greece by the beginning of the Iron Age".

The New Encyclopaedia Britannica: Volume 1, 2005







"The Albanians are generally considered to be the most ancient ethnic group in Southeastern Europe. They are the descendants of pre-Hellenic stock that was pushed back into the mountains of the western Balkans by the Hellenes and the Slavs. In this respect the Albanians may be compared to the Celts of the British Isles who were forced into the mountains of Wales, Scotland, and Ireland by the Anglo-Saxon invaders. The Albanian language is organically distinct from the neighboring Slavic and Greek languages in the same manner that the Celtic language is different from the Germanic".

The Balkans since 1453, Leften Stavros Stavrianos, Traian Stoianovich, C. Hurst & Co. Publishers, 2008, p. 496-497






"The Albanians call themselves Skipetars (Sons of the Mountain Eagle) and are recognized by ethnologists as a pre-Balkan people, perhaps being the descendants of the Pelasgians and Illyrians of primitive history".

^Economic conditions in Albania, Maxwell Blake, United States. Bureau of Foreign and Domestic Commerce, Govt. print. off.,1923, p. 1






"Illyrian has survived. Geography has played a large part in that survival; for the mountains of Montenegro and northern Albania have supplied the almost impenetrable home base of the Illyrian-speaking peoples. They were probably the first occupants, apart from nomadic hunters, of the Accursed Mountains and their fellow peaks, and they maintained their independence when migrants such as the Slavs occupied the more fertile lowlands and the highland basins. Their language may lack the cultural qualities of Greek, but it has equalled it in its power to survive and it too is adapting itself under the name of Albanian to the conditions of the modern world."


Migrations and invasions in Greece and adjacent areas, Nicholas Geoffrey Lemprière Hammond, 1976, p.163:



Following the collapse of the Roman Empire and the weakening of the Byzantine Empire, the Illyrian-speaking peoples expanded once again into the Mat valley and Muzeqe plain. By then they were known to thier southern neighbors as Albani, and thier language as Albanian."


The Albanians: A Modern History, 2001, Page 2, by Miranda Vickers





The Illyrians were a group of tribal peoples who inhabited present- day Albania, the former Yugoslav republics, ... The only modern descendant of the Illyrian group of languages is Albanian.

World and Its Peoples, 2009, p. 1602






The original home of the Dorians before they appeared in Thcssaly and Doris is by many thought to have been Illyria.The ancients thus associated Hellenic origins with Illyria. The Illyric type par excellence to-day is the Albanian.That the Albanians of Upper Albania have been in their present habitat since before the memory of man...

The annual of the British School at Athens: Issue 16, British School at Athens, British School at Athens. Managing Committee - 1910






"Old tombs of the prehistoric Pelasgi have been recently discovered near Sparta in Attica. Greek is scarcely spoken among the people, who are altogether Albanian, the same as the old Pelasgi".


(Lights and Shadows of Ancient European Mythology, Language and History
By Elizabeth Wilson, p.64)




“…Albania, whose people are probably the oldest inhabitants of the peninsula have even been indentified by some with the ancient Pelasgi…”

(Travels and Politics in the Near East, William Miller, p.208)





"...the principal proof of this Pelasgic origin to be the relation between the Albanian language and the most ancient Greek mythology..."
The Fortnightly, 1885

[rex362]

I can go on and on ...... ;D


one more /



The ancestors of the Albanians were the ancient Illyrians, who dwelled along the eastern coast of the Adriatic Sea, from Epirus as far north as Panno- nia. The Greek geographer of the second century ad, Ptolemy, mentioned an Albanian tribe with a city Albanopolis. The name of these Albanians was in the eleventh century extended to the rest of ancient Illyrians. This people was called in Greek, Albanoi, Arbanoi, or Albanitai, Arbanitai; in Latin, Arbanenses or Albanenses; from the Latin or Roman from comes the Slavonic Arbanasi, in modern Greek Arvanitis, in Turkish Arnaut. [History of the Byzantine Empire,



324-1453, Volume 2 By Aleksandr Aleksandrovich Vasilʹev,1952 p. 613

[rex362]

Harvard Slavic studies: Volume 1, 1953, p.365:



"...the Albanians (descendants of the aboriginal Illyrians and Thracians)".

[rex362]

The International geographic encyclopedia and atlas, Houghton Mifflin Company,1979,p. 14:

"The Albanians are reputedly descendants of Illyrian and Thracian tribes".