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Post by uz on Sept 26, 2011 18:36:05 GMT -5
I suppose the Serbs never discriminated against the Romanian minority in Serbia and the Timov Vlachs: before the 90s, during the 90s, and even to this day. This is not what we're talking about, but you're more than welcome to start a new thread so we can have a proper discussion.
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Post by Anittas on Sept 26, 2011 19:03:56 GMT -5
No, it's not that I want to change the focus to the issue of the Romanian minority. I was merely pointing out that Serbia seems to have had--and still has--issues with its neighboring countries and its minorities. This development started before the culmination of the Yugoslav civil war. Even if we consider your conspiracy theories that suggest the West instigated the conflict, it's difficult not to take this issue as one of the determining factors that lead to the break-up of Yugoslavia.
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Post by uz on Sept 26, 2011 19:18:30 GMT -5
C'mon annitas be real, all peoples' of the Balkans have stories about one ethnicity beefing with another one-way or another, what's the matter with you? You're making it look like a regional crisis. Either way, you're idea of what a "conspiracy" is, is completely false (perfect display of ignorance in man). It's no secret that private corperations were funding sides during the war just the other day Serbs in the US just got the go-ahead from the surpreme court to sue a US corperation responsible for funding Croats (eventually leading to operation-Storm). www.allgov.com/US_and_the_World/ViewNews/Serbs_Given_Go_Ahead_by_US_Court_to_Sue_Defense_Contractors_over_Genocide_110916If you don't know these things, it's ok. You can always ask.
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Post by Anittas on Sept 26, 2011 19:55:09 GMT -5
Not all countries. In Romania, every minority group of at least 10.000 is guaranteed a seat in the parliament. Moreover, the Serbs and the Bulgarians receive funds to maintain their cultural activities. I believe the Serb minority was receiving 200,000 euro in yearly payments, whereas the Timok Vlachs and the Romanians may not speak their language freely and they are, at times, supressed (Vojvodina is an exception to this).
So sure, let's be real. Those Romanians have never been a threat to your country and yet you treat them like trash. And yet, of all your neighbors, we're supposed to be on good terms.
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Post by uz on Sept 26, 2011 20:08:15 GMT -5
The majority of Serbs like Romanians, if there' a few hooligans that act violently towards Romanian people then I agree they need to be punished.
Why do you think Serb people advocate violence towards minorities?
Your taking one or two bad apples and judging the whole apple-tree. It doesn't work like that.
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Post by Anittas on Sept 26, 2011 20:29:45 GMT -5
Serbs tend to like us because we never experienced any severe conflicts and because we belong to the same religion. Serbs in general are not familiar with our culture and history, and the things we value; and since they don't know us, they can't like us throughout.
I'm not from southern Romania, so my experience with Serbs is limited. The few Serbs I met abroad were okay. Yet some Romanians who have known Serbs and who have dated Serb women say you play a double-game: at parties, you embrace us as your lost brother, but when we're not present, you may take to insult us.
But this isn't about that. What I was trying to say is that Serbia conducted a discrimanatory policy against Romanians and other minorities.
Yes, I've seen a glimpse of some of those cultivated Serbs that are a biproduct of Tito's Golden Age, but even they are a hostage to outdated values.
Case in point, because of the Ottoman yoke, the problem with Serbia and the rest of the Balkans is that you never had a Renaissance. You never figured out liberal ideas on your own; and as such you didn't develop a progressive culture until Communism was adopted as the ideology to follow. You guys view Liberalism as something foreign and try to escape Western philosophy. Because of this, your culture didn't allow you the flexibility needed to cooperate with other ethnicities. You saw them as a threat, and they became one.
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Post by uz on Sept 26, 2011 20:37:05 GMT -5
In regards to Serbian politics towards Romanian minorites, I cannot say much, haven't looked into it.
The Balkans has always been multi-ethnic, it is within our natures to be diverse. (this is what the Union is about btw).
I do not agree that b/c of "Ottoman-yoke" we were never able to adopt liberal ideas, quite the oppposite. I don't feel like getting into that now (again, another great topic for a new thread) even tho I have a lot to say about it, just don't have the time, maybe later.
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Post by Moe Lester on Sept 26, 2011 21:23:33 GMT -5
Wow, you guys can't even talk about a union without the discussion deteriorating into fighting.
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Post by uz on Sept 26, 2011 21:31:42 GMT -5
How it rolls;
-The Balkan Union proposition gets introduced.
-Discussions about why and how it would a good idea gets covered.
-Border issues get raised.
-Certain ethnics begin to blame other ethnics for "certain" things, concluding that a "certain-specific" ethnic-group is the reason why a Union can never happen.
-Arguments based on past wars get thrown around in attempt to level the table, considering that baseless accusations are keeping it un-leveled.
-Argument eventually dies down out of redundantness
-Topic gets changed entirely.
In a few months a new thread is opened proposing the same thing.
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Post by Moe Lester on Sept 27, 2011 0:55:42 GMT -5
Is there a country in the Balkans that doesn't have a border dispute?
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Post by Anittas on Sept 27, 2011 1:07:41 GMT -5
Is there a country in the Balkans that doesn't have a border dispute? Yeah, most of them (at least on the legislative level). If we refer to the people and how they might perceive historical justice, then no; but the same issue persists in several Western European countries.
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Post by Moe Lester on Sept 27, 2011 1:34:37 GMT -5
As far as I know, Croatians and Slovenians have a dispute about water boundaries. Bosnians want Sandzak, Serbs want Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Macedonia and Kosovo (if you recognise it), Macedonia wants a part of Greece and Bulgaria, Albania wants parts of Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Greece. Greece wants Istanbul, Bulgaria wants Macedonia.
That's a lot of disputes.
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Post by Moe Lester on Sept 27, 2011 1:40:06 GMT -5
Like a "Balkan Union" or something? ;D
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Post by terroreign on Sept 27, 2011 13:31:29 GMT -5
Serbs tend to like us because we never experienced any severe conflicts and because we belong to the same religion. Serbs in general are not familiar with our culture and history, and the things we value; and since they don't know us, they can't like us throughout. I'm not from southern Romania, so my experience with Serbs is limited. The few Serbs I met abroad were okay. Yet some Romanians who have known Serbs and who have dated Serb women say you play a double-game: at parties, you embrace us as your lost brother, but when we're not present, you may take to insult us. But this isn't about that. What I was trying to say is that Serbia conducted a discrimanatory policy against Romanians and other minorities. Yes, I've seen a glimpse of some of those cultivated Serbs that are a biproduct of Tito's Golden Age, but even they are a hostage to outdated values. Case in point, because of the Ottoman yoke, the problem with Serbia and the rest of the Balkans is that you never had a Renaissance. You never figured out liberal ideas on your own; and as such you didn't develop a progressive culture until Communism was adopted as the ideology to follow. You guys view Liberalism as something foreign and try to escape Western philosophy. Because of this, your culture didn't allow you the flexibility needed to cooperate with other ethnicities. You saw them as a threat, and they became one. +1
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Post by superalbo on Oct 23, 2011 20:46:54 GMT -5
How about an Albanian Union..
Albania Kosovo Presheva Valley Ulcin Cameria Shkup Tetove Gostivar
??
Otherwise big fat NOOOOOOOOO to any unions which involves the Serbs, Greeks and FYROMS.
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Sokol
Senior Moderator
Македонецот
Posts: 653
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Post by Sokol on Oct 24, 2011 21:18:41 GMT -5
How about an Albanian Union.. Albania Kosovo Presheva Valley Ulcin Cameria Shkup Tetove Gostivar ?? Otherwise big fat NOOOOOOOOO to any unions which involves the Serbs, Greeks and FYROMS. nobody wants a union with shiptars...just go back to chechnya and we'll all be happy...
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Post by superalbo on Oct 25, 2011 11:59:10 GMT -5
How about an Albanian Union.. Albania Kosovo Presheva Valley Ulcin Cameria Shkup Tetove Gostivar ?? Otherwise big fat NOOOOOOOOO to any unions which involves the Serbs, Greeks and FYROMS. nobody wants a union with shiptars...just go back to chechnya and we'll all be happy... Says the FYROM which considers Greek mythological hereos as their own... Sad really... I hope Greece and Albania wage war on you one day to remove all illusions out of your brains that you even have any form of history. You are a joke of a "nation". You are Serbianized Bulgarians. You are not Macedonians.
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Post by terroreign on Oct 25, 2011 13:20:08 GMT -5
^or bulgarianized Serbians
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Sokol
Senior Moderator
Македонецот
Posts: 653
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Post by Sokol on Oct 25, 2011 18:00:10 GMT -5
nobody wants a union with shiptars...just go back to chechnya and we'll all be happy... Says the FYROM which considers Greek mythological hereos as their own... Sad really... I hope Greece and Albania wage war on you one day to remove all illusions out of your brains that you even have any form of history. You are a joke of a "nation". You are Serbianized Bulgarians. You are not Macedonians. Greece and Albania? Perhaps after you sought out Cameria and Northern Epirus...
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Post by superalbo on Oct 25, 2011 18:55:26 GMT -5
Says the FYROM which considers Greek mythological hereos as their own... Sad really... I hope Greece and Albania wage war on you one day to remove all illusions out of your brains that you even have any form of history. You are a joke of a "nation". You are Serbianized Bulgarians. You are not Macedonians. Greece and Albania? Perhaps after you sought out Cameria and Northern Epirus... There will be nothing to be sought, In effect... If FYROM attacked Albania, Greece would have to defend Albanian territory because when Albania joined Nato, Greece had agreed that it would be its ally and if needed, it would offer millitary help to Albania. This is the purpose of Nato. Greece obviously VETO'd your ass out because you are their enemy. Greek government has a completely pro-Albania stance in regards to also joining Europe, they even support Kosovo joining the EU too. The same thing cannot be said about FYROM.
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