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Post by tito on Jan 5, 2009 10:49:47 GMT -5
Hamas confident of Gaza victory January 05, 2009 A senior Hamas official says that "victory is coming" for Palestinian fighters as they battle an Israeli ground offensive in the Gaza Strip.
Israeli troops, backed by air and naval firepower, were reported to have surrounded Gaza City on Monday after 10 days of aerial bombardment.
Soldiers were also reported to be positioned on the north-south road at Netzarim, effectively splitting the besieged territory in two and blocking Palestinian supply lines.
But Mahmoud al-Zahar, a senior Hamas leader, said that the movement's armed wing, had "given the most beautiful performances during its confrontation with the army that the world thought invincible".
"We will defeat it, God willing," he said.
Israeli jets have carried out more than 30 air raids on Monday.
The Israeli military said it hit a mosque in the northern town of Jabaliya "where arms were being stored, as well as houses containing arms caches and vehicles that were transporting rocket launchers and armed men".
"We have hit Hamas hard, but we have not yet reached all the goals that we have set for ourselves," Ehud Barak, the Israeli defence minister, told members of parliament.
"Gaza City is partially surrounded," he said.
'Legitimised' Al-Zahar warned that Israel's war on Gaza had opened it up to retribution by Palestinian fighters.
"They have legitimised the murder of their own children by killing the children of Palestine," he said.
"They have legitimised the destruction of their synagogues and their schools by hitting our mosques and our schools."
Palestinian fighters have continued to fire rockets into southern Israel despite the Israeli military operation.
Palestinians 'weakened' Al Jazeera's Ayman Mohyeldin, reporting from Gaza City, said that the Palestinian armed groups had certainly been weakened by the military operation.
"There is no doubt that they have sustained casualties ... but they are still very much operational," he said.
"They are engaged in hit-and-run type of tactics and have been preparing for this for several months by laying explosive devices and booby traps."
Abu Obeida, the spokesman for Hamas's Izz-e-din Al-Qassam Brigades, warned the Israeli military that it had many fighters ready to face it in the Gaza Strip.
"We have prepared thousands of brave fighters who are waiting for you in each corner of the street and will welcome you with fire and iron," he said.
"As long as the aggression intensifies, your losses will increase and you will sink further into the Gaza quagmire."
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Post by theblackswans on Jan 5, 2009 12:07:25 GMT -5
^ What are the Arab world supposed to do? They've tried going to war with Isreal a few times and failed. Plus now Isreal has nukes. I'm gonna eat flafal & hummas everyday until the fighting is over as a show of soliderity. Who's with me? Besides if you buy the Lebenese brand I am sure a portion of the proceeds has to go to Hamas somehow...
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Post by MiG on Jan 5, 2009 12:55:49 GMT -5
It's difficult to side with a certain side, since their problems go way deeper than 1948. Their shit goes as far as the Roman Empire (With the Exodus of Jews and all).
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Post by tito on Jan 5, 2009 13:01:22 GMT -5
It's difficult to side with a certain side, since their problems go way deeper than 1948. Their s**t goes as far as the Roman Empire (With the Exodus of Jews and all). You don’t have to side with anyone, just share your views on the military perspective. Can Israel achieve it’s goals before the elections in February?
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Post by MiG on Jan 5, 2009 13:15:43 GMT -5
^ Militarily? Israel dominates that war with everything you can think of. Every type of warfare is in favor (Greatly in Favor) of Israel. The US Department of Defense is even giving up information about logistical targets of Hamas.
All "Operation Cast Lead" is, is Israel flexing its muscle, and showing the Arab world that they can't do shit to Israel, even if they tried. If this should mount to a full scale Israeli-Arab Conflict, the Arabs wouldn't get 5 KM within the Israeli borders, before Damascus, Cairo, Alexandria, and Tripoli are leveled with nukes.
In any case of war, Israel's population is taught, and always was taught the mentality of "Total War". Every citizen would fight, and for every Israelite killed, 6 Arabs would go down.
Tactically, in numbers+training doctrines, between Israel and its aggressors, Israel equals them in numbers, and is superior in training. Fighter Pilots alone (IDF) have beat USN Pilots (NSAWC Graduates) with a ratio of 4:1 (On ever occasion, with any Battlgroup of the USN).
Naval-wise, Israel has the entire region blockaded, and no supplies are getting in, without IDF Chain-of-Command approval. Gaza is on lockdown, and they are fighting street by street, clearing out the area. Still, that's roughly 1.5M people they have to get through, which 80,000 IDF soldiers, supported heavily by armor, artillery, and air strikes (In one coordinated plan of attack, and several pincer movement offensives), can take care of in under 3 weeks.
Take into account that the Arab world is mostly neutral, and Hamas (Not Palestine) is viewed as aggressors. The population there is suffering because of their upholding and backing of Hamas. You take into account as well that Egypt, Jordan, and Lebanon are giving Israel FULL cooperation, and have criticized Hamas, and more importantly, the Palestinian-Arab communities support of Hamas.
All in All, Israel is numerically, tactically, logistically, and politically superior in this case, and Palestinians, the Arab World, or the UN cannot, and will not, do anything to change that.
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Post by tito on Jan 5, 2009 13:24:56 GMT -5
I don’t know about that, Israel kind of sucked during the aggression on Lebanon in 2006 when they were unable to defeat a few thousand Hezbollah rebels.
Here are some statistics from that war:
Israel: 30,000 soldiers Hezbollah: 600–1,000 fighters, 3,000-5,000 available, 10,000 reservists
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Post by MiG on Jan 5, 2009 13:31:14 GMT -5
Yes but you have to take into account that Lebanon and the majority of its border is with Syria, and Israeli Aircraft were instructed specifically not to violate Syrian Air Space (Same went for the rest of IDF).
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Post by tito on Jan 5, 2009 13:49:49 GMT -5
I don’t know about that, Israel kind of sucked during the aggression on Lebanon in 2006 when they were unable to defeat a few thousand Hezbollah rebels. Here are some statistics from that war: Israel: 30,000 soldiers Hezbollah: 600–1,000 fighters, 3,000-5,000 available, 10,000 reservists. Also the statistics for this latest war: Israel 10,000 soldiers deployed Hamas 10,000-20,000 "operatives" in Gaza(I guess there will be other rebel groups as well) The aggression on Lebanon lasted from 12 July 2006 to 14 August 2006. This time Israel will probably not have much more then another 2 or 3 weeks to end this war because of the elections. The Palestinians will probably open anther front in the West Bank in a week or so. Then in best case scenario Hizbollah will join the party at the end of the month. That is how the defenders of Palestine could win this war within a month from now.
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Post by theblackswans on Jan 5, 2009 13:56:30 GMT -5
^ Militarily? Israel dominates that war with everything you can think of. Every type of warfare is in favor (Greatly in Favor) of Israel. The US Department of Defense is even giving up information about logistical targets of Hamas. All "Operation Cast Lead" is, is Israel flexing its muscle, and showing the Arab world that they can't do s**t to Israel, even if they tried. If this should mount to a full scale Israeli-Arab Conflict, the Arabs wouldn't get 5 KM within the Israeli borders, before Damascus, Cairo, Alexandria, and Tripoli are leveled with nukes. In any case of war, Israel's population is taught, and always was taught the mentality of "Total War". Every citizen would fight, and for every Israelite killed, 6 Arabs would go down. Tactically, in numbers+training doctrines, between Israel and its aggressors, Israel equals them in numbers, and is superior in training. Fighter Pilots alone (IDF) have beat USN Pilots (NSAWC Graduates) with a ratio of 4:1 (On ever occasion, with any Battlgroup of the USN). Naval-wise, Israel has the entire region blockaded, and no supplies are getting in, without IDF Chain-of-Command approval. Gaza is on lockdown, and they are fighting street by street, clearing out the area. Still, that's roughly 1.5M people they have to get through, which 80,000 IDF soldiers, supported heavily by armor, artillery, and air strikes (In one coordinated plan of attack, and several pincer movement offensives), can take care of in under 3 weeks. Take into account that the Arab world is mostly neutral, and Hamas (Not Palestine) is viewed as aggressors. The population there is suffering because of their upholding and backing of Hamas. You take into account as well that Egypt, Jordan, and Lebanon are giving Israel FULL cooperation, and have criticized Hamas, and more importantly, the Palestinian-Arab communities support of Hamas. All in All, Israel is numerically, tactically, logistically, and politically superior in this case, and Palestinians, the Arab World, or the UN cannot, and will not, do anything to change that. MiG you are the TRUTH!!!!!!
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Post by theblackswans on Jan 5, 2009 13:59:08 GMT -5
I don’t know about that, Israel kind of sucked during the aggression on Lebanon in 2006 when they were unable to defeat a few thousand Hezbollah rebels. Here are some statistics from that war: Israel: 30,000 soldiers Hezbollah: 600–1,000 fighters, 3,000-5,000 available, 10,000 reservists. Also the statistics for this latest war: Israel 10,000 soldiers deployed Hamas 10,000-20,000 "operatives" in Gaza(I guess there will be other rebel groups as well) The aggression on Lebanon lasted from 12 July 2006 to 14 August 2006. This time Israel will probably not have much more then another 2 or 3 weeks to end this war because of the elections. The Palestinians will probably open anther front in the West Bank in a week or so. Then in best case scenario Hizbollah will join the party at the end of the month. That is how the defenders of Palestine could win this war within a month from now. Wow Tito, you are really out of touch with reality. You really think Hamas can win this? The Lebenese war was a propaganda victory for Hamas and it weakened the civil authorities in Lebanon (which helps Hamas) but the reality is Israel pounded the shit out of Hamas and the Lebanese people.
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Jan 5, 2009 14:00:57 GMT -5
sry to brake it to you but im on Palestine side in this story osmano But hezbollah is shit israel even bigger shit
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Post by tito on Jan 5, 2009 14:07:55 GMT -5
sry to brake it to you but im on Palestine side in this story I never expected anything less from you Dario But hezbollah is s**t israel even bigger s**t Isn’t Skoric a big supporter of the Hezbollah for some reason, they sell him drugs or something
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Post by tito on Jan 5, 2009 14:13:50 GMT -5
Also the statistics for this latest war: Israel 10,000 soldiers deployed Hamas 10,000-20,000 "operatives" in Gaza(I guess there will be other rebel groups as well) The aggression on Lebanon lasted from 12 July 2006 to 14 August 2006. This time Israel will probably not have much more then another 2 or 3 weeks to end this war because of the elections. The Palestinians will probably open anther front in the West Bank in a week or so. Then in best case scenario Hizbollah will join the party at the end of the month. That is how the defenders of Palestine could win this war within a month from now. Wow Tito, you are really out of touch with reality. You really think Hamas can win this? The Lebenese war was a propaganda victory for Hamas and it weakened the civil authorities in Lebanon (which helps Hamas) but the reality is Israel pounded the s**t out of Hamas and the Lebanese people. I know that, you probably misunderstood my post, I never meant that they would defeat the IDF. But I do think that there is a chance that they can hold out long enough to gain a favorable "peace" agreement before the elections in Israel next month.
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Post by tito on Jan 5, 2009 15:06:19 GMT -5
January 4, 2009 “We are not pessimistic about the future of the fighting,” said Ali Fayyad, a former Hezbollah official and the director of a research institute here affiliated with Hezbollah. “We consider that the resistance is strong enough, and we think Israelis are making the same mistake they made in the July 2006 war.” Hezbollah is well aware of Hamas’s abilities, having worked with Iran to train and prepare the Gaza-based movement for this conflict, Mr. Salem and other analysts say. The idea was to arm Hamas so that it could survive in battle long enough to force Israel and Arab states to negotiate terms with it, a process that would ultimately bolster its power and credibility — along with those of its allies Syria, Iran and Hezbollah. No second front is needed to fulfill those goals. www.nytimes.com/2009/01/05/world/middleeast/05hezbollah.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all
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Post by MiG on Jan 5, 2009 15:21:23 GMT -5
Dude, these people cannot fight an Israeli Army. This is next to the most advanced army in the world, with superior tactics, and decades of planning and advancement in strategy. This is David v. Goliath, and this time, Israel is Goliath.
This is like Cuba v. the States. It's impossible to hold out, let alone fight your way through the IDF.
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Post by meltdown711 on Jan 5, 2009 15:27:28 GMT -5
And without historical Soviet support (one of the main fighter plains used by the Arabs was the MiG), what kind of arms can the Arabs expect now? Meanwhile in the last 4 years Israel signed a 40 billion arms deal with America, which ensures major military support. Not to mention the yearly 2 billion...
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Post by tito on Jan 5, 2009 15:30:55 GMT -5
Dude, these people cannot fight an Israeli Army. Dude, these people have been fighting the Israeli army for 60 years now. This is next to the most advanced army in the world, with superior tactics, and decades of planning and advancement in strategy. This is David v. Goliath, and this time, Israel is Goliath. This is like Cuba v. the States. It's impossible to hold out, let alone fight your way through the IDF. No one expects them to defeat the IDF, they just have to do what Hezbollah did in 2006: hold out for a month or so and the victory will be theirs since the IDF wont have a war during elections.
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Post by MiG on Jan 5, 2009 15:36:53 GMT -5
And without historical Soviet support (one of the main fighter plains used by the Arabs was the MiG), what kind of arms can the Arabs expect now? Meanwhile in the last 4 years Israel signed a 40 billion arms deal with America, which ensures major military support. Not to mention the yearly 2 billion... Still arms from Russia. In today's world, whoever has the money, can get the goods. The Syrian Air Force and Defense received their first shipment of 16 Su-27SK aircraft. They are looking to purchase 32 by 2010. Dude, these people cannot fight an Israeli Army. Dude, these people have been fighting the Israeli army for 60 years now. This is next to the most advanced army in the world, with superior tactics, and decades of planning and advancement in strategy. This is David v. Goliath, and this time, Israel is Goliath. This is like Cuba v. the States. It's impossible to hold out, let alone fight your way through the IDF. No one expects them to defeat the IDF, they just have to do what Hezbollah did in 2006: hold out for a month or so and the victory will be theirs since the IDF wont have a war during elections. Yes, they have been fighting the IDF for 60 years, and consecutively, even at times with the support of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and monetary support from the Arab world, they still couldn't do it. Hamas isn't Hezbollah. You don't seem to understand that they are surrounded, and blockaded from humanitarian aid, let alone military assistance. This won't last a month. This will last a year, or maybe even longer, until Israel can insure its own safety by eliminating the extremist elements within the Gaza Strip.
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Post by tito on Jan 5, 2009 15:49:32 GMT -5
This will last a year, or maybe even longer, until Israel can insure its own safety by eliminating the extremist elements within the Gaza Strip.Are you making this up or do you have a source that can confirm that this is the aim of the IDF offensive on Gaza? So far I have not heard one Israeli official saying anything about the Israel even attempting to "insure its own safety by eliminating the extremist elements(Hamas) within the Gaza".
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Post by MiG on Jan 5, 2009 16:09:37 GMT -5
If you read some of the newspapers, you would be surprised what some Israeli Officials have to say about this. It's not even the leaders as much as the people who want blood.
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