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Post by tito on Jan 5, 2009 16:13:30 GMT -5
So you have no source that can back up your statement? I’m not saying this to provoke, just want to know if there is any truth in your claim.
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Jan 5, 2009 21:31:15 GMT -5
^ I know you're not trying to provoke. It's a general human psyche to want to know. If you want to know real bad, I'd suggest researching it all. Just saying that military history isn't all as boring as people make it out to be.
What are you questioning exactly? I'd like to know just so I can find a source, or several sources, for you.
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Post by tito on Jan 5, 2009 21:53:26 GMT -5
My question was about the aims of the Israeli offensive on Gaza, has Israel really said that it will continue this war "until it can insure its own safety by eliminating the extremist elements within the Gaza"(by extremist elements I guess you meant Hamas?).
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Post by markosijekira on Jan 5, 2009 23:52:19 GMT -5
"And without historical Soviet support (one of the main fighter plains used by the Arabs was the MiG), what kind of arms can the Arabs expect now? Meanwhile in the last 4 years Israel signed a 40 billion arms deal with America, which ensures major military support. Not to mention the yearly 2 billion... "
Egypt has actually quite an impressive army for the regional standard, now mostly equipped with US inventory, including a downgraded version of the M1 Abrams MBT. But all that is moot since Israel has nukes!
About the Hamas and other groups like it, If Israel could defeat them and be rid of them they would have done so long ago, but even the most modern technology, impressive tanks, air force, domestic intelligence will not get rid of a militant threat as long as conditions on the ground in Gaza and Palestine exist that breed such extremism. You can kill hundreds, arrest thousends, but there always seems to be more of them willing to take the places of those that have gone before them. Israel’s problem with the Palestinians will not be solved by guns (short of ethnic cleansing and genocide), this has not worked for the last 30 years.
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Post by SKORIC on Jan 6, 2009 0:56:51 GMT -5
sry to brake it to you but im on Palestine side in this story I never expected anything less from you Dario But hezbollah is s**t israel even bigger s**t Isn’t Skoric a big supporter of the Hezbollah for some reason, they sell him drugs or something lol? when did i say that?
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bihvojska
Amicus
"A Great Man is Remmbered By What He Has Created Not By What He Has Destoryed"
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Post by bihvojska on Jan 6, 2009 5:13:20 GMT -5
i think the jews should be bombed the hell out of, just because they took something that wasn't theres in the begging, and don't think im just siding with the Arabs cause im Muslim. we all know the Americans took land from Palestine after ww2 and just gave it to the jews.
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Post by boscrocop on Jan 6, 2009 5:22:56 GMT -5
"And without historical Soviet support (one of the main fighter plains used by the Arabs was the MiG), what kind of arms can the Arabs expect now? Meanwhile in the last 4 years Israel signed a 40 billion arms deal with America, which ensures major military support. Not to mention the yearly 2 billion... " Egypt has actually quite an impressive army for the regional standard, now mostly equipped with US inventory, including a downgraded version of the M1 Abrams MBT. But all that is moot since Israel has nukes! About the Hamas and other groups like it, If Israel could defeat them and be rid of them they would have done so long ago, but even the most modern technology, impressive tanks, air force, domestic intelligence will not get rid of a militant threat as long as conditions on the ground in Gaza and Palestine exist that breed such extremism. You can kill hundreds, arrest thousends, but there always seems to be more of them willing to take the places of those that have gone before them. Israel’s problem with the Palestinians will not be solved by guns (short of ethnic cleansing and genocide), this has not worked for the last 30 years. The problem of the Arab countries has not been equipment, but rather tactics and training and organization. If you look at the 6-day-war and the Yom Kippur-war, and look at the equipment and numbers the sides had, it is a wonder that the Arabs did not win. As for the rest of the topic, Gaza is almost just a city, from the way it looks on google earth, one huge ghetto where Israel keeps the Palestinians.
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Post by tito on Jan 6, 2009 10:36:53 GMT -5
lol? when did i say that? "Zadnji Bosanac"/deucaon told me that you are even making some propaganda videos for them on youtube?
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Post by SKORIC on Jan 6, 2009 10:48:35 GMT -5
ohh yehh the old videos for drugs deal. Must have forgot since im on drugs. lol
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Post by tito on Jan 6, 2009 12:02:32 GMT -5
Israeli fighters penetrate into Lebanon 06 Jan 2009
Israeli warplanes have reportedly overflown southern Lebanon amid speculation that Tel Aviv may be seeking to provoke Hezbollah. The warplanes overflew the Lebanese port city of Sidon on Tuesday morning, a Press TV correspondent reported.
Tel Aviv has repeatedly accused Hezbollah of making preparations to attack Israel to avenge the murder of its commander Imad Mughniyeh. Mughniyeh was killed in a car bomb attack in Damascus last year.
This comes as Hezbollah lawmaker Hassan Hoballah has affirmed that the Lebanese movement has no intention to go to war despite "the recent propaganda against it". He warned, however, that Hezbollah would defend Lebanon if Israel were to invade his country.
Iran says over 70,000 students sign up for martyrdom operations 2009-01-06
TEHRAN, Jan. 5 (Xinhua) -- The director of the Public Relations of Iran's Students' Basij (Volunteer) Organization Esmaeel Ahmadi said here on Monday that over 70,000 students had signed up for martyrdom operations, the official IRNA news agency reported.
"More than 70,000 students from universities throughout Iran have signed up on the list to conduct Esteshhadi (martyrdom seeking) operations (against Israeli troops in Gaza)," Ahmadi said.
"The students will act as part of Esteshhadi battalions," he added.
Iranian hard-line university students, since the erupt of Israeli war against Hamas in Gaza, have urgently sought the Iranian officials' permission to be deployed to Gaza to fight by the side of Palestinians.
However, Iran's influential cleric Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani said on Friday that Gaza does not need soldiers but political, weaponry and propagandistic support.
Iran's Foreign Ministry spokesman Hassan Qashqavi on Monday denied that there was anything like providing weaponry support for Hamas in Iran's government agenda.
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Post by meltdown711 on Jan 6, 2009 12:16:01 GMT -5
"And without historical Soviet support (one of the main fighter plains used by the Arabs was the MiG), what kind of arms can the Arabs expect now? Meanwhile in the last 4 years Israel signed a 40 billion arms deal with America, which ensures major military support. Not to mention the yearly 2 billion... " Egypt has actually quite an impressive army for the regional standard, now mostly equipped with US inventory, including a downgraded version of the M1 Abrams MBT. But all that is moot since Israel has nukes! About the Hamas and other groups like it, If Israel could defeat them and be rid of them they would have done so long ago, but even the most modern technology, impressive tanks, air force, domestic intelligence will not get rid of a militant threat as long as conditions on the ground in Gaza and Palestine exist that breed such extremism. You can kill hundreds, arrest thousends, but there always seems to be more of them willing to take the places of those that have gone before them. Israel’s problem with the Palestinians will not be solved by guns (short of ethnic cleansing and genocide), this has not worked for the last 30 years. Your right, Israel is not in any good position right now IMO. Its a country that survives off of a military culture that also seems to suffocate much of the youth; and today your seeing an increase in emigration from Israel rather than immigration (Israel has recently asked India to extradite over 50,000 youths who have since left Israel for the subcontinent); not to mention the higher birth-rates of the Palestinians within, which is causing a great worry among them. Many nationalist Israelis have proposed the idea of kicking the Palestinians out once and for all, giving them a state and just making a giant wall... but even if they were to do such a thing, it would be artificial and I doubt that it would help in the long run. The only thing these wars will do is leave more homeless and battered youths, widowed husbands, and others who will be more ready than ever to join to some kind of militant Islamic movement.
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Jan 6, 2009 14:42:32 GMT -5
My question was about the aims of the Israeli offensive on Gaza, has Israel really said that it will continue this war "until it can insure its own safety by eliminating the extremist elements within the Gaza"(by extremist elements I guess you meant Hamas?). If I can find the article in the Toronto Sun, I'll scan it and show you.
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Post by tito on Jan 6, 2009 14:54:55 GMT -5
My question was about the aims of the Israeli offensive on Gaza, has Israel really said that it will continue this war "until it can insure its own safety by eliminating the extremist elements within the Gaza"(by extremist elements I guess you meant Hamas?). If I can find the article in the Toronto Sun, I'll scan it and show you. www.torontosun.com/
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Post by tito on Jan 6, 2009 14:56:19 GMT -5
25/12/2008 Some 46 percent of Israelis said they do not support a massive Israel Defense Forces invasion into the Gaza Strip, with 40 percent saying they would favor such an operation, according to a poll released Thursday. www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050000.html
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Jan 6, 2009 19:00:04 GMT -5
^ Well, here is an article that will help you understand why my statement might become a little more clearer... Israeli forces enter Gaza
Army chiefs warn of 'lengthy operation' against HamasBy IBRAHIM BARZAK and JASON KEYSER, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Israeli tanks and infantry pushed into Gaza tonight, launching an offensive in a widening war the defence minister said would be neither short nor easy. The ground operation was preceded by several hours of heavy artillery fire after dark, igniting targets that sent flames bursting into the night sky. Machine-gun fire rattled as bright tracer rounds flashed through the darkness and the crash of hundreds of shells sent up streaks of fire. Israeli artillery also fired illuminating rounds, sending streaks of bright light drifting down over Gaza’s densely packed neighbourhoods. Gunbattles could be heard as troops crossed the border into Gaza, marching single file. They were backed by helicopter gunships and tanks. Israeli security officials said the objective was not to reoccupy Gaza, but that the depth and intensity of the invasion would depend on parallel diplomatic efforts.Israel’s campaign “won’t be easy and it won’t be short,” Defence Minister Ehud Barak said in a televised address shortly after the ground invasion began. “We do not seek war but we will not abandon our citizens to the ongoing Hamas (rocket) attacks.Maj. Avital Leibovich, an Israeli army spokeswoman, told CNN: “We have many, many targets. To my estimation, it will be a lengthy operation.”Heavy Israeli artillery fire hit east of Gaza City in locations were Hamas fighters were deployed before the ground incursion began. The artillery shells were apparently intended to detonate Hamas explosive devices and mines planted along the border area before troops marched in. Hamas has long prepared for Israel’s invasion, digging tunnels and rigging some areas with explosives. A text message sent by Hamas’ military wing, Izzedine al-Qassam, said “the Zionists started approaching the trap which our fighters prepared for them.” Hamas said it also broadcast a Hebrew message on Israeli military radio frequencies promising to kill and kidnap the Israeli soldiers. Hamas spokesman Ismail Radwan said in a televised speech that Gaza will “become a graveyard” for Israeli soldiers. He appeared on Hamas’ Al Aqsa TV shortly after the ground offensive began but it was not immediately clear whether the appearance was live or taped. The Israeli government said tens of thousands of reserve soldiers are being mobilized as the offensive in Gaza widens.Artillery units joined Israel’s Gaza offensive for the first time Saturday while warplanes and gunboats pounded more than 40 Hamas targets as well as a mosque, where 10 people were killed. Air strikes waned during the day but gathered pace after dark. “We will do all that is necessary to provide a different reality for southern Israel, which has been under constant attacks for the past eight years,” Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni told Channel 2 TV.The Israeli offensive has sparked large protests around the world over the past few days. Tens of thousands rallied Saturday in about a dozen European countries against the Israeli action. Some hurled shoes at iron gates near the British prime minister’s residence in London, in an echo of the Iraq journalist who angrily threw his shoes at President George W. Bush while he was visiting Iraq last month. Tens of thousands of Israeli Arabs demonstrated in the northern town of Sakhnin, by far the biggest protest in Israel so far. Marchers held Palestinian flags and a smattering of green Hamas flags. But there were no reports of violence. Protests involving hundreds of demonstrators also took place in Ottawa and Toronto, with additional rallies scheduled for Vancouver and Montreal. Israel launched the offensive Dec. 27 in response to intensifying rocket fire by militants in Gaza. Prior to the ground invasion, the operation had already killed well over 400 Palestinians, with upwards of 1,700 wounded. UN officials estimate that at least 25 per cent of the casualties have been civilians and that a serious humanitarian crisis has developed. Israel, which has suffered four deaths from Hamas rocket fire, denies there is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. The use of artillery fire raised the possibility of higher civilian casualties. Artillery fire is less accurate than the precision-guided bombs and missiles used by the Israeli air force. An artillery shell hit a house in Beit Lahiya after nightfall Saturday, wounding many people, according to members of the family living there. Ambulances could not immediately reach them because of the resulting fire, they said. One air strike hit a mosque in the northern Gaza town of Beit Lahiya, killing 10 people and wounding 33, seven critically, according to a Palestinian health official. The army also struck the American International School, the most prestigious educational institution in Gaza. The school is not connected to the U.S. government, but it teaches an American curriculum in English. The air strike demolished the school’s main building and killed a night watchman. Two other Palestinians were killed in a separate air strike, while four others, including a mid-level militant commander, died of wounds sustained earlier, Gaza health officials said. Maxwell Gaylard, UN humanitarian co-ordinator for the Palestinians Territories, has estimated that a quarter of the Palestinians killed so far have been civilians and a “significant number” of the dead were women and children. He said some 2,000 people have been wounded. “There is a critical emergency right now in the Gaza Strip,” he said. www.torontosun.com/news/world/2009/01/03/7910351.html
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Post by tito on Jan 6, 2009 20:37:28 GMT -5
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Jan 7, 2009 3:32:07 GMT -5
Israel considers stepping up Gaza offensive
• Leaders meet to discuss plan for troops to enter urban areas • UN demands ceasefire as death toll rises steeply Israel's most senior political leaders were meeting in Tel Aviv today to decide whether to expand their devastating offensive in Gaza or consider the first outlines of a ceasefire proposal. The prime minister, Ehud Olmert, will discuss with his cabinet a plan to send Israeli forces into the built-up areas of Gaza, despite the rapidly mounting death toll. Late yesterday France and Egypt proposed an initiative to stop the conflict in Gaza with an immediate ceasefire. Details were not released, but it would begin with an immediate halt to the fighting to allow in much-needed humanitarian aid followed by talks to resolve the conflict involving both Israel and Hamas, the Islamist movement that controls Gaza. The Israeli prime minister, Ehud Olmert, will today discuss with his cabinet the proposed ceasefire as well as a plan to escalate the conflict by sending Israeli forces into the built-up areas of Gaza, despite the rapidly mounting death toll. Israel has sent thousands of troops and tanks into the Palestinian territory, where they have been locked in heavy fighting, and continues with intensive artillery strikes from land and sea, as well as aerial bombing. Today's meeting comes after the deadliest day of fighting yesterday, in which more than 50 Palestinian civilians were killed when Israeli forces bombed two UN schools and several houses. Among the dead was an entire family of seven young children. Ban Ki-moon, the UN secretary general said he was "deeply dismayed" by the killings, which he called "totally unacceptable". The UN has demanded an impartial investigation. More than 660 Palestinians have now been killed in Israel's attack on Gaza, with nearly 3,000 wounded. A total of 10 people have died on the Israeli side: three of them were civilians; four were Israeli soldiers mistakenly targeted by their own troops. The French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, travelled back to Egypt late yesterday to meet President Hosni Mubarak for another round of discussions, which eventually produced the initiative. Sarkozy said he had presented the idea to Olmert. "I have good hope that the reaction of Israeli authorities will allow us to imagine an end to the operation they have undertaken in Gaza: that is, not only a ceasefire but a withdrawal," Sarkozy said. The US secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, said she was "pleased" at the initiative, and Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, gave his support. Abbas had given an emotional appeal for a ceasefire to the UN security council. "Do not let one more Palestinian mother cry for her children. Do not allow it. Put an end to the massacre of my people. Let my people live, and let my people be free," he said. Israel has yet to respond to the proposal but has been insisting in recent days that any deal must prevent the smuggling of weapons into Gaza across the Egyptian border. Overnight, the Israeli military said it had struck 40 sites in Gaza, including what it said were tunnels and rocket-launching sites used by Hamas. Israeli officials have denied there is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza despite mounting evidence to the contrary from the UN and the world's leading aid agencies. Last night, however, Israeli officials said they had agreed to set up a "humanitarian corridor" that would allow aid into parts of Gaza while Israeli forces suspended attacks in certain areas. It was not clear when the corridor could open, how much aid would be allowed in, or whether it would be safe for staff to distribute aid on the ground. Israel continues to ban journalists from entering Gaza to report on the killings. www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestinians
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Post by tito on Jan 7, 2009 11:26:20 GMT -5
07 Jan 2009 Tel Aviv views as 'positive' an Egyptian initiative which calls for an end to the ongoing hostilities and bombardments in the Gaza Strip.“Israel thanks the Egyptian president and the French president for their efforts to advance the solution to end the terrorist activity from Gaza and stop weapons smuggling from Egypt into Gaza,” an Isreali spokesman Mark Regev said. This is while Tel Aviv's airstrikes on the blockaded costal sliver have entered their 12th day, and its ground military incursion has reached its fifth day. The all-out attack on Gaza was initially launched under the pretext of halting Palestinian's retaliatory rocket attacks. Later, however, Israel unveiled that the main objective of the onslaught was to topple the democratically-elect government of Hamas. “Israel sees positively the dialogue between Egyptians and Israelis in order to advance these issues,” Regev added, but failed to say whether Israel would send a delegation to Egypt to discuss the initiative. On Tuesday, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak presented a plan for an immediate ceasefire between Israelis and Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. The plan would require Israel and the Palestinian factions to accept an immediate ceasefire for a limited period, which would open safe passages for humanitarian aid to Gaza and give Egypt time to continue its efforts for a comprehensive and lasting ceasefire. Wed, 07 Jan 2009 Israeli tanks withdraw from southern GazaIsraeli tanks, which had been backed by helicopter gunships, have withdrawn from the southern Gazan city of Khan Yunis, witnesses say. Dozens of Israeli tanks rolled into Khan Yunis along with ground troops early on Tuesday morning but withdrew from the city before dawn on Wednesday and returned to Israel, AFP quoted witnesses as saying. An army spokesman refrained from commenting on the report. Israeli ground forces began a full-scale invasion of Gaza on Saturday after pounding the region with airstrikes for a week. According to Tel Aviv, the war on Gaza is aimed at ending rocket attacks against Israeli settlers, toppling Hamas and preventing the resistance group from rearming. Hamas, however, demands a cessation of Israeli attacks and the opening of the Gaza border -- which has been closed due to the 18-month blockade imposed on the strip by Tel Aviv.
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Post by tito on Jan 8, 2009 4:59:58 GMT -5
Hezbollah has opened the second front!?Jan 8, 2009 Two people were lightly wounded when terrorists in Lebanon on Thursday morning fired three Katyusha rockets at the area of Nahariya in northern Israel. The IDF returned fire. The IDF's Northern Command held consultations following the attack, saying that "Israel holds the government of Lebanon and the Lebanese armed forces responsible for preventing rocket fire into Israel." The army also said that Palestinian elements were interested in "dragging Lebanon into a war." www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231167307373&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
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Post by SKORIC on Jan 8, 2009 9:05:50 GMT -5
Rockets slammed into northern Israel from Lebanon on Thursday, with Hezbollah indicating it was not responsible for the attack that sowed panic on both sides of the tense border.
No group had claimed responsibility for the salvo, which came as Israel pushed on with its 13-day-old offensive on Hamas in the Gaza Strip.
"Three rockets landed in Israel fired from Lebanon," said Israeli police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld, adding that two people were slightly wounded in the area around the northern town of Nahariya.
"We carried out direct fire at the source of the rocket fire from Lebanon," an Israeli army spokeswoman said.
A Lebanese army spokesman said: "Between two and three rockets were fired from southern Lebanon. Israel has retaliated with five or six rockets."
Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak said while visiting an army base in the south that "we are following events in the north, we are alert and will know how to respond", his office quoted him as saying.
The exchange echoed the 2006 war between Israel and Hezbollah - which began against the backdrop of Israel's last major offensive in Gaza - and sent Israelis into bomb shelters and Lebanese into cars to flee their homes.
Sirens sounded over northern Israel and residents were directed to bomb shelters, while in southern Lebanon people rushed from the border.
"The residents are starting to flee. There is panic in the area," said resident Fathi Badawi.
United Nations troops deployed in the south of Lebanon also went on alert and the Lebanese government called for an inquiry into who had fired across the frontier into Israel.
Hezbollah assured the Lebanese government it was not responsible for the rocket fire, Information Minister Tarek Mitri said.
"Hezbollah has assured us that they remain committed to stability and Resolution 1701 and that is a euphemism for saying they are not involved," Mitri said, referring the UN Security Council resolution that brought an end to the devastating 2006 war between Israel and Hezbollah.
"We have absolutely no reason to think that Hezbollah might be involved," Mitri added.
Officials in Lebanon representing the two main Palestinian factions Hamas and Fatah both denied that their movements were behind the firings.
"Hamas is pursuing its combat inside Palestine and our principle is not to use any other Arab soil to respond to the occupation," Hamas spokesman Raafat Morra said in Lebanon.
Munir Makdah, an official with the other main Palestinian group Fatah, said: "I doubt that this is the work of any Palestinian faction, the Palestinians are committed not to use Lebanon as a front and our weapons are under the authority of the Lebanese."
All units of the UN force, known as UNIFIL, were deployed across the zone of responsibility to try to prevent further rocket attacks, said a French military official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
"UNIFIL is in a state of heightened alert since 8.05 local time this morning," he said.
The rockets fell a day after Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah warned that "all possibilities" were open against Israel amid its deadly offensive in Gaza.
Israel and Hezbollah fought a 34-day war in 2006, after guerrillas from the Lebanese Shi'ite movement seized two Israeli soldiers in a deadly cross-border raid.
The war killed more than 1,200 Lebanese, mostly civilians, and more than 160 Israelis, mostly soldiers. During the conflict, Hezbollah sent more than 4,000 rockets into northern Israel.
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