|
Post by kapetan on Jan 11, 2009 20:27:14 GMT -5
800 Palestinians are dead so far, I have plenty of reason for betting on more of their lives "failing" in the next few days. ;D Im not betting on the strategic conclusion of these campaigns am I? Are you playing the fool or is it that you are just too stupid to understand? how many of those are hamas? wtf @ jewish nation and agressive neighbors...you must be kidding. then the serbs were just defending themsevles from the aggresive neighbors in kosovo? dont think so.
|
|
|
Post by meltdown711 on Jan 11, 2009 20:29:52 GMT -5
^^^ Did the KLA shoot rockets into random Serbian cities? That's the difference. On top of that israel has given the Palestinians numerous chances for establishing their own nation, its the Palestinians who attacked and rejected those terms.
PS: Its Hamas which is launching its missiles from compact zones...
|
|
|
Post by bosanskinovi on Jan 11, 2009 20:30:07 GMT -5
Ive never made pro-Nazi remarks... Well, pro fascist anyways...concerning Albania's role in WWII
|
|
|
Post by kapetan on Jan 11, 2009 20:37:18 GMT -5
^^^ Did the KLA shoot rockets into random Serbian cities? That's the difference. On top of that israel has given the Palestinians numerous chances for establishing their own nation, its the Palestinians who attacked and rejected those terms. PS: Its Hamas which is launching its missiles from compact zones... the kla didnt have to shoot anything into serbian cities they fought IN kosovo where their enenmy was for the most part, and attacked serbian targets IN kosovo which at the time WAS serbia. besides the albanians had NATO bomb serbian cities cuz they didnt have the capability to. so in essence same thing. the enemy of serbia did bomb their cities. rightfully so. besides now youre going away from the root of the conflict and youre judging a tactic. and that tactic is no worse then what we all did in the 90's. not even close. there is different circumstances in this conflict then in balkan ones. different tactics are therefore necessery. i know what hamas is and what they did and do. I know what fatah is. i know what gaza strip and west bank are. and most importantly i know the history of israel. and the fact you just said "it's hamas launching rockets" proves the point that it's pointless to kill hundreds of useless civilians women and kids....like thats gonna stop hamas. theyre not killing hamas theyre killing random people. they could destroy hamas, few people would care. but we can both see that's not whos paying the price. this will result in even more hate between them and more resistence and a bigger clusterf**k. a few million jews won't outlast over 340 million arabs. one way or another, arabs will be arond long after them.
|
|
|
Post by meltdown711 on Jan 11, 2009 20:48:11 GMT -5
Palestinians arent fighting for their lands, they want to destroy Israel. its as if Albanians decided lets go to war with Serbia because we want Belgrade. No, Albs didnt do such a thing. We fought for our own land within out own lands against an enemy within it. As I stated, Israel has given groups like Hamas and Hezbollah chances to prove themselves but in the end it always come down to this. Arabs want to destroy Israel thats the goal and keeping the fire lit is part of their strategy. So in that sense, why should I feel sympathy when they WANT the war to go on?
And kapetan, the reason for Israel bombing Gaza and NATO bombing Serbia are different. On top of that it shows how we played the game better. They decided "lets vote in militant Islamist and lets side with the Soviet Union". End result? America made its tradition of supporting Israel which has gone on till today.
So long as Israel has nukes, it will always exist...
|
|
|
Post by vinjak on Jan 12, 2009 2:21:00 GMT -5
Who do you think will win this war?
I would say the object of this war is to destroy the routes for smuggling weapons into Gaza. I don't think its got anything to do with winning a war, as breaking the will of the Palestinians cannot be done so it is highly likely that the objectives are to seek and destroy all smuggling routes while killing as many militants as possible.,
|
|
|
Post by tito on Jan 12, 2009 3:53:59 GMT -5
10.01.2009 Zbog talasa nasilja koje se dešava u Gazi, graðani Sarajeva okupili su se danas ispred Ekonomskog fakulteta. Èlanovi Omladinskog demokratskog pokreta koji su inicirali ovaj skup, a kojima su se pridružile i nevladina organizacija Gariwo, te Patriotska liga BiH ovaj skup zamislili su kao poziv na mir. Ipak na skupu su se mogli vidjeti tansparenti koji su izjednaèavali kukasti križ i davidovu zvjezdu, a transparenti nisu sklonjeni ni na molbu organizatora. Predsjednik Demokratskog omladinskog pokreta Edvard Deni Èomaga pozvao je sve prisutne da ne prave incidente, jer kako reèe ovo je skup za mir, a protiv mržnje i svakog oblika nasilja. On je ovom prilikom istakao da je sramota šta se dešava u Palestini, te da je jedino riješenje mir za sve. Avdo Hebib ispred Patriotske lige rekao je da je glas Sarajeva -glas koji se mora èuti. Svetlana Broz predsjednica organizacije Gariwo rekla je da je Sarajevo nauèilo lekciju šta znaèi kada svijet šuti, a drugi stradaju. Demostracijama za mir "pridružila" se i grupa koja je uzvikivala tekbire. Predstavnici organizatora demostracija istakli su da su demostracije javni skup, te da se ne mogu sprijeèiti dolasci, ali da ih je jedino strah da ne bude "navoðenje vode na svoj mlin" od strane ovih grupa. Kako je rekao Èomaga ovo je skup na koji su se odazvali graðani Sarajava bez obzira na vjersku i nacionalnu pripadnost. I kad je završen oficijenli dio skupa, grupe sa palestinskim zastavama, su još neko vrijeme ostale da uzvikuju parole. Iz mase su se takoðer mogla èuti i pitanja gdje su bh politièari na ovom skupu.
|
|
|
Post by tito on Jan 18, 2009 12:06:00 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by markosijekira on Jan 19, 2009 0:59:33 GMT -5
"800 Palestinians are dead so far, I have plenty of reason for betting on more of their lives "failing" in the next few days. "
Well it ain't hard killing 800 Palestinians, when you can concentrate SP Howitzers, Gunship’s and Ground Attack fighter/bombers into a tiny heavily populated zone like Gaza, it's like a bloody turkey shoot over there! My favorite is all the Israelis that are gathering on the hills on Gaza Border with camp chairs and drinks cheering and hollering every time there is a big explosion that hits Gaza, they have a nice view.
|
|
|
Post by malsor4life on Jan 19, 2009 1:16:24 GMT -5
Its a miracle only 800 Palis are dead, the way Hamas operates----out of hospitals, mosques, human shields, etc. Credit to Isreal for their carefullness, unlike Hamas who specifically target civilians.
|
|
|
Post by zgembo on Jan 19, 2009 1:42:27 GMT -5
Palestinians arent fighting for their lands, they want to destroy Israel. its as if Albanians decided lets go to war with Serbia because we want Belgrade. No, Albs didnt do such a thing. We fought for our own land within out own lands against an enemy within it. As I stated, Israel has given groups like Hamas and Hezbollah chances to prove themselves but in the end it always come down to this. Arabs want to destroy Israel thats the goal and keeping the fire lit is part of their strategy. So in that sense, why should I feel sympathy when they WANT the war to go on? Not all Palestinians want to destroy Israel, and that's not even the desired end-goal of Hamas and Hezbollah. Difference between Israel and Serbia is that Israel has pursued a smart 50-year long strategy of expelling Palestinians and colonizing the lands with Jews. There are something like 3 million Palestinian refugees. For them, the goal is not just to reclaim control of Gaza and the West Bank (where they are a majority) it is also to reclaim other lands they feel have been stolen. I am sure if Serbia had colonized half of Kosovo with Serbs and expelled Albanians from there too, Albanians would want that land (with some radicals claiming that all of Serbia has to be destroyed). Again, even that point is relative because Israel was created after WW2 and in different circumstances than Serbia. The two situations are very different obviously. However, the principals of it are the same. One side is stronger than the other and has a professional army fighting a rag-tag collection (Israel vs. Palestinians; Serbia vs. Albanians). One side wants to exert control (Israel, Serbia), the other side wants full autonomy and independence (Palestinians and Albanians). You can differentiate the conflict ad nauseum to reconcile your support for different roles in the conflict. What it really comes down to is an imbalance in power and control vs. independence though.
|
|
|
Post by meltdown711 on Jan 19, 2009 2:09:06 GMT -5
But isnt it your claim that the opposite has happened? That through a foreign power (Ottoman Empire for us/US for the Jews) we have become the dominant ethnic component in a given region and through it we moved into independence, eventually taking even more land? The struggles are different and similar in many ways and both sides of each conflict can be linked with both sides of our conflict, which is why I have found Israelis and Palestinians backing both sides at various points.
The situation is irrelevant since in this case its also the Serbs that feel powerless in light of the fact that the Albs are supported by America (some of you have even spoke of how the whole world was against Serbia). Palestinians feel much the same. No doubt explains why so many of your compatriots in Belgrade have shown open sympathy towards the Palestinians.
Im mostly arguing over how this is unraveling. Hamas is fighting this the way we Albs would never have considered it. The UCK no doubt relied on Serbian atrocities to fuel recruitment, this is the strategy of all guerrilla groups. However, that Hamas shoots these bombs from crowded areas so as to result in an even bigger tragedy is just repulsing. Whats more is the attacks have no particular value to them... their just attacks that result in greater reprisals, which of course creates radicals within the Islamic world.
Its the method of the struggle that I oppose.
|
|
|
Post by zgembo on Jan 19, 2009 2:40:52 GMT -5
Hamas shoots the bombs from crowded areas? That is your big distinction. That tiny sliver called Gaza Strip has 1.5 million people. What part of it is not a crowded area?
And you cannot compare oranges and apples. The situation of the Palestinians is much more desperate and boiling than that of the Albanians. The level of desperation and powerlessness people have is correlated with how they will react.
You can look at historical analogies, or you can consider the present which should be more relevant. The common factor in every conflict, from Russia in Checnya, Serbia in Kosovo, Turkey in Kurdistan and Israel in Palestine, is an organized army quelling a separatist civilian-based movement that is accompanied with allegations of human rights abuses and demands for independence. It is curious why you deny this OBVIOUS similarity.
|
|
|
Post by meltdown711 on Jan 19, 2009 3:04:38 GMT -5
Ill admit in the case of Kurdistan and Chechnya that there there is substantial similarity to the Kosovo war. However in those cases you have an isolated people with no major regional support fighting against a power who has much of the morale support of neighboring territories (this is especially the case with Kurdistan). However with the Palestinians you have the fact that all of Israel's neighbors attacked it at the same time in their name... twice... that's not exactly isolating the Palestinians that much huh? Imagine if Hungary, a more organized Bosnia and Romania had defended the Albanians in such a way?
On the otherhand Albanians didnt even have any morale support from our neighbors, some could barely be kept from themselves attacking us. Montenegrins, Macedonians, and Romanians all crowded to the support of Serbia... at best there was some regional morale support in Croatia and significant in Bosnia.
Yea, Israel is more organized and as such its obvious that the Palestinians will take more losses while they less. However it does not particularly end there.
Yet another reason for my differentiation is the historical pick of the Palestinians as a source of support: socialist countries and the Soviet Union. Major amount of weapons came from there and they forced the US to go with Israel and now since USA came on top, Israel did in the Middle East that much more.
Your point is extremely relevant, but there are a great number of other ones as well which I see...
|
|
|
Post by malsor4life on Jan 19, 2009 3:26:32 GMT -5
Zgembo wrote:
"Not all Palestinians want to destroy Israel, and that's not even the desired end-goal of Hamas and Hezbollah."
Are you kidding ? Thats precisely their goal, Hamas openly states destroying Israel all together is their ultimate desire. They won elections on that slogan.
And i disagree that most Palestinians want Isreal to exist, that contradicts what polls say. Most Palestinians do NOT want to co-exist with Isreal. On the contrary, the Israeli governement and 80-90% of Jews according to surveys want a 2 state-solution. The offer has been on the lap of Palestinians for years, but every time they trigger something to mess up the process. Its getting old and tiresome at this point, Isreal and the entire world wants to get it friggen done already and move on.
Theres no comparison with this situation to Kosova. Apples and oranges in every last way. Method wise and Serbia at no point in time was ever going to compromise or concede anything. If anything, the correct analogy here is Palestinians=Serbia/Israel=Albanians.
|
|
Zvone
Amicus
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Posts: 525
|
Post by Zvone on Jan 19, 2009 13:02:41 GMT -5
^ Yep, it is in their charter to destroy Israel.
|
|
|
Post by zgembo on Jan 19, 2009 17:36:03 GMT -5
Method wise and Serbia at no point in time was ever going to compromise or concede anything. If anything, the correct analogy here is Palestinians=Serbia/Israel=Albanians. Albanians wouldn't accept anything less than independence even before 1998 (before KLA attacks, before NATO bombs), so it's a little much to say Serbs wouldn't compromise or concede on any point. And, sure, if you think that is the correct analogy, good for you. But you are also clinically retarded, so it means absolutely nothing.
|
|
bihvojska
Amicus
"A Great Man is Remmbered By What He Has Created Not By What He Has Destoryed"
Posts: 268
|
Post by bihvojska on Jan 19, 2009 23:31:02 GMT -5
Some one needs to end this dumbass war, guess wht i got a solution. Cut off the jews money, or just bomb the living hell out of the whole region in Palestine and Israel. :} no worryies
|
|
|
Post by hellboy87 on Jan 20, 2009 8:53:44 GMT -5
I dont agree with Hamas' action of first firing into Israel.We all know how Israel is,how they react, and even though they are occupying Palestine,thats just not the way to go.But also,what do you expect? To be occupied,and then your remaining land being taken away as time passes by,there's only so much people can tolerate before they "explode".
The Jews of Israel,many of whom whose connection to Israel is ancestral and religious/historical,have absorbed the blood and culture of areas where they were before they made the aliyah. So its not a strong connection to Israel as opposed to the Palestinians who've been there ever since the beginning,therefore having an absolutly stronger claim to it as their land and theirs only. Also,even though that land was once a Jewish kingdom,it was not only Jews living there,but the ancestors of Palestinians.
Boo hoo to the Jews.Look! They are just one doomed group.They cant have their own country.Well maybe they can,but not where it is today.It was a f*cking stupid decision to have it where it is.Ive heard that racism played apart too in it getting a green light to established on Palestine land.
When I see what went on recently,I'd say it was better if Hitler wasnt interrupted.He was sent by Goooooood,to rid the world of eviiiiilllll.LOL! Those damn Americanski!!! And their PR action!!!
Also,I have a massive problem with these Jews aligning themselves with Europeans.They obviously dont know history.Hitler showed them who they were and where they belong.Hmp!
|
|
Zvone
Amicus
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Posts: 525
|
Post by Zvone on Jan 20, 2009 9:20:42 GMT -5
^ Someone edit this moron.
|
|