Atan
Amicus
Posts: 307
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Post by Atan on Jun 3, 2009 2:18:27 GMT -5
Opss - above instead of Pirot read Bosilegrad.
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Atan
Amicus
Posts: 307
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Post by Atan on Jun 3, 2009 2:24:11 GMT -5
Te ti example ;D!!
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 3, 2009 5:59:20 GMT -5
"The slavs in Macedonia mixed with the bulgars of Kuber: there are alot of historic proofs.The tree groups that mixed to produce the Bulgarians of today, also mixed in fyrom:"
Absolute rubbish, there is no proof of this, just more attempts to link these people with the Bulgars. Ioan, l know very well that the Bulgarians and its Exarchate tried to do everything it could to falsify the history of the people of vardar.....do you know of your famous stone inscription which you keep on showing me your link was a FABRICATION, this FABRICATION states that the people of Vardar of the 10th century and Samuil were Bulgarians, however this stone inscription was examined by the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences in Sofia and its director declared that the inscription was a 19th CENTURY BULGARIAN FABRICATION!!.
Lets argue that Kuber settled in vardar in the late 7th century, this is still 150 years after the Serbs settled there and 30 odd years after even the first partial serbian resettlement occured from vardar to asia minor to a town called GORDOSERVION.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 3, 2009 6:01:49 GMT -5
Atan ........why the hell was serbian derived towns renamed in western Bulgaria only after WW2, tell me?
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Jun 3, 2009 6:04:09 GMT -5
^ THAT IS A BIG FAT LIE. There was another inscription that was a fabrication that was thought to be a fromm Samuel himself. The Bitola inscription is not a fabrication NO MATTER HOW MUCH U WANT IT TO BE! The Bitola inscription is a medieval stone inscription written in Old Church Slavonic. It was found in 1956 during the demolition of an old Ottoman mosque in the town of Bitola, Republic of Macedonia and it is now kept at the Institute and Museum of Bitola.[1] The text commemorates the fortification works on the fortress of Bitola under one Tsar Ivan. It is believed to date either from c.1015, in which case the monarch in question would be Tsar Ivan Vladislav of Bulgaria en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitola_inscription
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Jun 3, 2009 6:08:22 GMT -5
Significance As an example for the historical and political importance of the inscription for the supporters of Macedonism could be shown the recent scandal in Republic of Macedonia. It arised by the preparing touristical catalogue of Bitola. The French consulate in the city wich sponsored and prepared the book put on the cover part of the text of Bitola inscription with clear visible word Bulgarian. Befor the presenting of the catalogue this made a big confusion in the official persons of Bitola municipality. The issuue of the new book was stoped and the cover cnanged.[1] This article or section may contain original research or unverified claims. ... www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/Bitola-inscriptionSTOP SPREADING LIES MY TORLAKIAN BG FRIEND!
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Atan
Amicus
Posts: 307
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Post by Atan on Jun 3, 2009 6:49:54 GMT -5
I can't understand you Novi. Which "Serbian" derived towns? We lost our land (Zapadni Pokraynini - Pirot, Bosilegrad, Nish) to you....I mean Serbs not you ;D - not the opposite.
What is your basis to claim "serbian" ancestry to these towns anyway?
What I know for town renaming in Bulgaria after WW2 (not only Western part!) was because of the communism - something typical in USSR at that time - Volgograd became Stalingrad....
For example - Montana in Western Bulgaria was renamed Mihaylovgrad. Quite stupid name I might say but it was fact. Dimitrovgrad (named to other "great" communist BG leader) is another example.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 3, 2009 6:52:21 GMT -5
^ Read Kontinent dated 02.10.1997. Bulgarian history of vardar is extremely suspious!.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 3, 2009 7:14:53 GMT -5
Why did western Bulgarian towns like Kyustendil, Samokov, Radomir etc....was reassigned to the Patriarchate of Pech when it was restored in 1557.....it was the dense Serbian population in those towns that caused it to be assigned to the resuscitated Patriarchate of Pech (Kosovo i Metohija - Serbia).
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Post by rusebg on Jun 3, 2009 7:27:09 GMT -5
What a pile of bollocks!!!!! And before you ask me why the name of Samokov used to be Srbski Samokov, let me explain you this: Modern Samokov has never had the name of Srbski Samokov. Srbski Samokov was a small utterly insignificant village that is now gone under the waters of some dam. The name was given a long time ago when a local boyar hired some Serbian workers to build or do something, I forgot what. May be you would like to claim that their main purpose was to establish Serbian identity in the area but it was not the case. p.s. Would you explain me what happened to this 'dense population?' lol where did they go, what Serbian traces they have left, what customs the people in these towns have, you know, things like that that might prove your point. Because I am absolutely certain that I understand the local speech in Nis or Pirot much better than you, for instance.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 3, 2009 7:38:18 GMT -5
^Look it up Ruse, do some research and you'll find the truth ;D......not on the internet ofcourse ;D Now Nish was never B"lgarski. Don't you know about the B"lgarska Ekzarhia (Bulgarian Exarchate) and its missions, Read below: BULGARIZING THE SERBS. * E-MAIL Jul 3, 1918, Wednesday Page 12, 872 words Eastern and Southeastern Serbiathe Morava Valley, Nish, Skoplje--are at present in the hands of Bulgaria. There was a time, and not, so long ago, when, according to some students of the complications of races in the Balkans, Eastern Serbs and Western Bulgars .. query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9502E7D9173EE433A25750C0A9619C946996D6CFagain its not a serbian source, but american!.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 3, 2009 8:11:33 GMT -5
Ioan do you want some scientific evidence, this is to show you that the Serboi had assimilated the vardarians before Bulgars, read:
The Serbs are darker in pigmentation than either the Slovenes or the Croatians; 45 per cent of eyes are pure brown (Martin #2-4), as against 20 per cent which are pure or nearly pure light.
Over 55 per cent have black or dark brown hair, while light browns and blonds come to less than 10 per cent.
The beards are, of course, often lighter than the head hair.
The skin is brunet-white or light-brown in at least a third of the total. It is unlikely that the prevalence of brunet pigmentation among the Serbs came from a Slavic source, and as we shall presently see, the high incidence of dark eyes can hardly be called Dinaric.
By elimination we must suppose that the Serbs, in their sojourn in northern Macedonia. accumulated a strong brunet tendency.
Races of Europe Carleton Stevens Coon The Living Slavs: Serbs Croats & Slovenes
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Atan
Amicus
Posts: 307
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Post by Atan on Jun 3, 2009 8:44:06 GMT -5
Novi.
During the time of the Ottoman rule we - Bulgarians have been under the Patriarchate of Constantinople. For very long time. Only in the 30-ties in 19th century our church was restored as the (scary for you) Exarchate.
By your logic we have been Greeks for centuries but strangely we didn't know that. The admitance of superiority of one church does not define the ethnic background of the people under it.
From the creation of the Christian Bulgaria to some period of time our church admitted the superiority of Constantinople. So what?
The towns you mention are with Shopi=Bulgarian population. I have never heard any Serbs there.
Browse the link I gave you - enlighten yourself ;D.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 3, 2009 8:56:01 GMT -5
^ They were Bulgarianised along time ago!.
D.A.I: SERBS IN VARDAR IN 600 AD:
Porphyrogenitus must have crapped on when he said that Serbs entered then left Vardar in 630 AD. The Serbs who stayed withdrew further north from Salonica into up the Vardar until the Nemanjici united finally Serb lands . Otherwise, the Nemanjici never would have built so many monasteries in lands populated by non-Serbs. Why was Milutin buried in W. Bulgaria. These lands came under Bulgarian control long after Bulgarian identity was strengthened under Boris in 850 AD. (What does Boris mean in old Slavonic)
Our great Sv. Sava never would had gone to Trnovo to die had there not been mostly Serbs living there, too. Sava was the founder of the ethnic, national Serbian Orthodox Church. You see Sava went to die in W. Bulgaria because he could see the bulgarization of the Serbs in his own time. His death was meant to act as a symbolic inference for future generations. So was king Milutin’s.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 3, 2009 9:01:18 GMT -5
"During the time of the Ottoman rule we - Bulgarians have been under the Patriarchate of Constantinople. For very long time. Only in the 30-ties in 19th century our church was restored as the (scary for you) Exarchate."
Bulgars were a tool of the Turks. Can’t you see that the Turks created the Exarchate in order to use your greed for vardar against the Serbs, who were always the Turk’s worst enemy? Turkey even helped Vanco Mihailov and hid him from Aleksandar & Broz, according to that mans admission. I'll say it again you B'lgari have always been a tool of the Turks.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Jun 3, 2009 9:23:00 GMT -5
1. Serbs in Turnovo: in your dreams maybe, but not in reality; 2. Why Bulgars were Turks tool but Serbs-Turks worst enemy? Bulgarians fought against Turkey as much as the Serbs.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Jun 3, 2009 9:27:56 GMT -5
Novi, I think its time for you to embrace yourself and shout loud "I am a proud Bulgarian". It would make the life of all of us much much easier.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 3, 2009 9:35:26 GMT -5
^ Look its nearly 1.00am here in Melb Australia, l'm off to bed, but l will say this again, why did the Turks hide Vanco Mihailov from Broz as per his own admission?.
Again why was Milutin buried in western Bulgaria and Sava died in Trnovo?
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Jun 4, 2009 1:20:36 GMT -5
Well I can not give you the precise answer. First, because I was not living there to ask them. However there could be alot of possible answers: the Bulgarians and Serbs used to be closer in medievil times. Proove for that is the fact that all the Bulgarians for example adored Marko, the Serbian ruler of Macedonia and accept him as theirs. I m talking about every part of Bulgaria here. In our folklore, the hero Krali Marko (krali from kral, king) is very very popular. He exists in every corner of Bulgaria in our folksongs. We know he is based on the figure of the Serbian Marko. Also the links between Serbian and Bulgarian rulers were very close. In the time of the second Bulgarian kingdome the relative relations betweeen Serbia and Bulgaria were very close: one could say that even one family ruled in both capitals. Also, the Serbs must ve looked up to Bulgaria, because in those times it was the oldest, mightiest slav empire in Europe and it probably must have been a priviledge to die in Turnovo. As for Milutin: his body was moved to Sofia, because Maria Brankova, married to Mehmed II, wanted so. Her father was Georgy Brankov, despot of Ohrid. Obviously he ruled over Bulgarians and she must ve felt Bulgarian and thats why she probably wanted the body in Sofia. We must have in mind that at those times it was most important it was a body of a saint, it was not so important what ethnicity he was. Bulgarians acknowlegded Serbian and Greeks saints. It is recorded Greeks paid respect to Ivan Rilski too.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Jun 4, 2009 1:51:28 GMT -5
By the way Milutin was NOT buried in western Bulgaria. He was buried in the Ban monastery in Serbia. Then his body was moved to the village Trepcha. Then to Sofia.
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