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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 4, 2009 7:56:03 GMT -5
^ Okay then.....anyway, towns like srpski selo and srpski samokov would suggest a serbian inhabitation?
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ioan
Amicus
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Post by ioan on Jun 4, 2009 8:15:07 GMT -5
You got your answer that Serbs build something in a village called Srupski Samokov and thats why it was named srubski.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 8, 2009 22:33:22 GMT -5
"Serbs-Turks worst enemy"
Why were the Serbs the worst enemy of the Turks, well again read below:
"It is understandable that the Turks preferred the patient and submissive Bulgar to the rebellious Serb or Greek. Since the Serbian principality had gained its freedom, the Turks regarded every Serb who declared himself to be such as a rebellious conspirator against the Turkish regime. This circumstance was widely exploited by the Bulgars in order to spread their propaganda among the Serbs outside the principality. Whoever was reluctant to become a Bulgar and persisted in calling himself a Serb was denounced to the Turks as conspiring with Serbia, and could expect severe punishment. Serbian priests were maltreated; permission was refused to open Serbian schools and those that were already in existence were closed; Serbian monasteries were destroyed. In order to avoid persecution, the population renounced its nationality and called itself Bulgarian........during the last thirty or forty years, propaganda has been rife in which the Bulgars have encouraged the Turks to act against Serbs and Greeks. Hence, throughout Macedonia, Thrace and Dardania, Slavs are considered to be Bulgars, which is quite incorrect. On the contrary, the Slavs in Macedonia are incapable of understanding a Bulgar from Jantra. If it is desired to designate these Slavs correctly, than they must be considered as Serbs, for the Serbian name is so popular among them that for example male children are sometimes christened "Srbin" [Serb]. the Serbian hero of the folk poems, Marko Kraljevich is obviously the Serbian ruler in Macedonia."
Alexander von Heksch "Die Donau von ihrem Ursprung bis an die Mundung",Leipzig,1885,pp.636
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Atan
Amicus
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Post by Atan on Jun 9, 2009 1:47:53 GMT -5
Novi. You sound less and less intelligent with every post of yours.
This is the biggest crap I've ever read from you - although you're quite productive when it comes to crap.
By the way - about your Serbs being the most "rebellious" and Bulgars summissive. Read some history of Bulgarian Hayduti - you'll see how submissive we were. Again you repeat the same crappy article (this you already posted).
If you think with your head a little bit - look at the geographical situation. The Austrians when in war with Turkey almost reached Greece. Your lovely Serbs in that term were more "free" since they were in the periphery of the Ottoman Empire - and of course much more easy it was for them to play coc.ky. But of course despite heavier situation in which we were compared to serbs, we still fought constant guerilla wars against the oppressors.
Read also how many uprisings Bulgarians had during the yoke. Read also how your restored Serbia with her "great" warriors lost wars against Ottoman Empire and were running like beaten dogs to Austro-Hungary and Russia for help.
One last thing - do you know that when Bulgarian Kingdoms fell under the Ottomans these forbid the Bulgarians to wear no weapon except knives? And not to ride a horse? Do you think Turks will do that to submissive people? How's the situation with your Serbs?
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 9, 2009 7:32:48 GMT -5
Atan, the B'lgari were a lost cause during the ottoman empire. The Serbian uprisings, which occurred repeatedly over a period of several centuries exerted a rousing effect upon the B'lgari, who took over the Serbian epos of kosovo. A chap by the name of Vladimir Kachanovsky noted down from Nikola Minchev, a B'lgarin from Dupnitsa, four folk poems about the Battle of kosovo that were sung by the B'lgari. You know when the Serbs managed to liberate a part of her territory from the Ottoman Turks, their reputation among the B'lgari rose even higher. When Prince Milosh was on his way to pay homage to the Sultan, he arranged his route to pass through B'lgarska, where the people greeted him with enthusiam. It is a well-known fact that he assisted the building of schools in B'lgarska and authorised the printing of B'lgarski textbooks at his OWN PRESS. Atan, for the enslaved B'lgarski people, Srbija was a stimilus encouraging them to exert an effort on their own behalf, and a hope of assistance if and when they began to do so.
Who inspired Pajsije to write the 'Slaveno-bugarska istorija' in 1762?.....none other than a Srbin by the name of Jovan Rajich!.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 9, 2009 8:58:22 GMT -5
he he i can imagine Atan's ancestors waving the Serb flag ;D Serbs must have been really popular back then, no wander why Fyromaks imitated their language, using at least FIVE cases, etc... in their folk songs. It seems this pure bulgarian dialect was not so ... analytical back then.. ;D
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 9, 2009 23:57:03 GMT -5
^ Pyrro its like the forgotten 500, now the US is seeking to rip apart not just kosovo but other regions as well.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 10, 2009 0:26:08 GMT -5
Novi, some "inconvenient" truths which were conveniently forgotten but not gone.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 10, 2009 0:32:41 GMT -5
^ I know, but what l was trying to say was that Serbs helped these people and got a knife in the back for it.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jun 10, 2009 1:00:05 GMT -5
Yes, there could be no denying that alot of Bulgarians went to Serbia to be thought as soldiers and to return to Bulgaria to fight against the Turks. The positive influence have been both ways and there have been knifes in the Bulgarian back too. How can one forget the war in 1885 or the Macedonian question? If we forget those two hot questions, I agree we are closest to the Serb as far as language, religion, way of life... But we did too much harm to each other after the good things. We almost always forgot how close we are in reality. One have to go to Serbia, Montenegro, Croatia to know it, to feel it.
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Atan
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Post by Atan on Jun 10, 2009 1:28:38 GMT -5
I don't agree. If you read Mavro Orbini - mediavel Croatian historian, he cited several names (he also stand behind that thesis) of his contemporary historians that it was only the Bulgars who were able to break the Ottoman force. Only we had that power - no Serbs, no Greeks. But also he give us as an example of the old maxima "Divide and Conquer". We were separated in 5 Bulgarias - each fought with other, with Byzantine, with Turks, with Serbs. We are/were warlike people - no of the Balkans could stand against us if we are united.
If you look at the battles - first between Serbs and Bulgarians at Velbujd. This is actually the only major battle you ever won against us. How you won? Again - it was our too big self-confidence that ruined us - our soldiers spread out to rampage - then you stroke and easily defeated Bulgarians. But remember - no chance against us if our two armies would meet ready on the battlefield.
Check another example - when Samuil's Bulgaria fell under Byzantines - the battle at Sperhei river - our army was sleeping with no guards whatsoever! Called it stupidity or too much self-confidence. But the result was a disaster for us - although we won almost every major battle up to that point despite having much less resources (manpower included) than Byzantium!
Yes! I fully agree! But what is your point? Where me or any of other Bulgarian said opposite? We were much more close back then - both Orthodox and Slavic speakers. The Byzantines talking about the battle at Velbujd said: "The Mizians (Bulgarians) and Serbs talk the same language...."
But how you can explain the bul.lshit you wrote above about Bulgarians in Yantra and Macos??
Novi. Once again. Where did I said the opposite? Where? I agree with your statement. I say again - you managed because of your better geographical situation! You were between two major enemies - Austro-Hungary and Ottoman Empire. We were in the heart of that damn Islamic Empire! How do you expect from us to fight soldiers with guns and artillery with knives?!?! Plus they were far more numerous than us!!
Do you know that in my area - North-West Bulgaria we had a small state? This was lead by a Turk - Osman Pazvantoglu but the Bulgarians under him were his main army. Do you how many times we defeated the Sultans' armies sent to subdue this small Vidin state? Check - see how my people are able to fight.
We also helped you - Rakovski's Legia. These Bulgarians were incorporated in your army during your fight against the Turks. Later you disbanded them for whatever reason althought they fought with bravery and honour.
True. Again - I don't see yourself to explain the crap you wrote in your previous post.
I didn't know that. I don't deny it. I admit I don't know that (unlike some idiots who appear to know everything but are only laughable). Give me proof and I'll accept your statement. I am not ashamed to admit a Serb helped us.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 10, 2009 5:55:07 GMT -5
^ ah atan, when l have some time tomorrow, l'll show you proof that while pajsije was vice abbot at the serbian hilander monastery at mt athos he was inspired by a serb to write his historical text.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 10, 2009 5:59:47 GMT -5
"How can one forget the war in 1885 or the Macedonian question?"
Ioan, Ioan, Ioan, did you read what l have written above, the Turks used your greed for serbian vardar against the serbs.....why was there an Exarchate.
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Atan
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Post by Atan on Jun 10, 2009 7:44:44 GMT -5
Novachevic - check what I found ;D. You lier ;D. It seems there were no Serbs during the time of Paisiy - only Bulgarian monks in that monastery.
Another explanation of your crazy theory of St. Sava's death in Tzarevgrad Tyrnov (about people there being Serbs ;D):
It seems that the guy just got sick in our capital on his way back home - no "serb population" connection.
Novi, Novi.....poor brother. What these serbs have done to you?
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 10, 2009 7:46:07 GMT -5
^ I know, but what l was trying to say was that Serbs helped these people and got a knife in the back for it. Aha, so the efforts for Bulgarian expansion at Serbia's damage happened (long) before the Serbo-Bulgarian war in 1885?
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Atan
Amicus
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Post by Atan on Jun 10, 2009 7:46:23 GMT -5
And Novi. Be a man. And admit when you lie or you are wrong.
Don't just move forward as you didn't say anything.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 10, 2009 8:00:45 GMT -5
^ just wait for tomorrow when l write about Pajsije and the serbian hillander monastery.
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ioan
Amicus
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Post by ioan on Jun 10, 2009 8:37:44 GMT -5
Haha it looks like Novi got OWNED. Again. And again. And again. And again. Its getting kind of boring, but u get that when u oppose the view shared by the scientists.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 10, 2009 8:53:35 GMT -5
Whats up Ioan? Do you think that "scientific" knowledge can come from nowhere that quickly? some study is needed first. unfortunately wikipedia pages written by paid students usually lack a lot of info found in REAL old books.
PS ha ha, the other thread in the greek forum must have hurt really bad, hey Ioan? ;D
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 10, 2009 9:03:25 GMT -5
"Haha it looks like Novi got OWNED."
I haven't been owned even once yet by you guys, just wait till tomorrow ;D.....l mentioned about Pajsije to Ruse once ;D
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