|
Post by Arxileas on May 22, 2009 8:39:36 GMT -5
Athens / 15/05/09 / 11:07 The outgoing NATO Secretary General Jaap De Hoop Scheffer is not optimistic about settlement of the name issue, a precondition for Macedonia's NATO entry. After the talks with the Greek top officials on Thursday, the NATO chief told the Macedonian authorities to show flexibility over the name issue "I must add, openly and frankly, that after a visit I paid to Skopje last week, my optimism has not grown, in listening to the authorities in Skopje. And I do hope that also they will realize that, for a solution for the name issue, they have to show flexibility," NATO chief told a press conference in Athens. Asked by a journalist to tell his view of the repeated efforts by Skopje to override what it regards as the Greek veto at the NATO summit in Bucharest last year, Scheffer said "there has never been a veto". "There is no veto. NATO doesn’t know the word veto. NATO does know the word consensus. And although people might have disappointed, there was a consensus in Bucharest last year, and there was a consensus again in Strasbourg and Kehl. NATO doesn’t know the word veto, and no nation has ever vetoed anything in NATO," Scheffer said. "But let there be no misunderstanding whatsoever what the consensus rule in NATO means. And that has nothing to do with a veto by anyone. I have never heard the word veto in my five and a half years, nor have my predecessors, nor will my successors."
Greek Foreign Minister said Greece would like to welcome our friends and neighbors into the NATO family, but "we would like to welcome them when we have solved the problem of the name issue". /end/ www.makfax.com.mk/en-Us/Details.aspx?itemID=4309
|
|
|
Post by Novi Pazar on May 30, 2009 22:15:02 GMT -5
^ Arxil, well the vardarians need to think why they arn't successful.....its not very hard.
|
|
Nikola
Senior Moderator
Posts: 1,835
|
Post by Nikola on May 30, 2009 22:31:22 GMT -5
In other words, you can't call yourselves Macedonians if you want to join this club. I wish he would just say that instead of masking his point in typical political spin.
|
|
|
Post by macmako on Jun 2, 2009 0:13:32 GMT -5
Why is it that all I hear is Macedonia is the one that has to be flexible. What of Greece? Why have I not heard anyone say that Greece must be flexible, too.?
Macedonia wants to use the name "Macedonia". Greece does not want Macedonia to use it. Yet Macedonia has to be the one to be flexible? Why does it feel as if this is a "one-way" issue?
|
|
ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
|
Post by ioan on Jun 2, 2009 2:31:39 GMT -5
Maybe because the Greeks have the right to veto fyrom?
|
|
ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
|
Post by ioan on Jun 2, 2009 2:35:44 GMT -5
Also, I have to add that the historic justice is on the Greek side on this particular matter. Actually if fyrom has to have connections to any ancient people: those must be the Peonians, not the Macedonians. Peonians were Thracians, thats why fyroms and Bulgarians are one people. Later there came the slavs and the Bulgars (of Kuber in fyrom and of Asparuch in Bulgaria).
|
|
|
Post by rusebg on Jun 2, 2009 5:32:33 GMT -5
Until the German geologist of Novi came and found out that people of fyrom were Serbs. I guess that if Novi suddenly decides to display interest in fyrom's rock structure or soil content, the first source he would look into for information, is some German linguist. After all, in his opinion, German geologists are the ultimate experts in linguistics. Therefore, German linguists are the ultimate experts in geology.
|
|
|
Post by chalkedon on Jun 2, 2009 7:11:17 GMT -5
Why is it that all I hear is Macedonia is the one that has to be flexible. What of Greece? Why have I not heard anyone say that Greece must be flexible, too.? Macedonia wants to use the name "Macedonia". Greece does not want Macedonia to use it. Yet Macedonia has to be the one to be flexible? Why does it feel as if this is a "one-way" issue? Do you live in a God damn bubble ? Does " North " or " New " macedoinia ring a bell ? Those names have been offered and rejected by your side. I believe the word macedonia is included in those terms. Wake the hell up already....
|
|
|
Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 2, 2009 9:02:37 GMT -5
Ruse, its good to see you back mate, l hope all is well?
Anyway back to debating business:
This Geologist made some observations of the people, travellers travelling through the region during the 19th century when the vardarians were forced to join the Exarchate made a critical mistake:
Let me remind you both again:
"If," says Hugo Grothe, "during the church plebiscite of 1872, two thirds of the Christian Slavs voted for the Exarchate, this was by no means a confession of their Bulgarian descent."
- Grothe, Auf turkischer Erde, p.364
Its funny that l throw in stunning quotes and they are immediately rejected, its amazing how much mainstream are opinions on vardar really are.
I see myself as a thorn in mainstream vardarian thinking ;D
|
|
|
Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 2, 2009 9:16:21 GMT -5
"Peonians were Thracians, thats why fyroms and Bulgarians are one people. Later there came the slavs and the Bulgars (of Kuber in fyrom and of Asparuch in Bulgaria)."
Kuber pfft, alright so where does it leave the serbs of vardar and its earlier historical presence?. Again Bulgars arrive late 7th century whereas serbs arrive when and where first?
|
|
ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
|
Post by ioan on Jun 2, 2009 9:49:45 GMT -5
I do not care where the serbs were. What I know is they were not in fyrom, according to every sane linguist.
|
|
|
Post by rusebg on Jun 2, 2009 9:57:11 GMT -5
Novi, tell me this: am I supposed to use hypnosis or some other unusual approach in order to finally make you understand that the Bulgarian nation was not formed of Bulgars only and there were numerous Slavs who belonged to the so-called Bulgarian group and who took part in this formation as well? It is really exhausting to post this again and again. Why don't you want to be a nice person and do your best to get this into yor head?
And even some sane geologists, Novi's one exlcuded ;D
|
|
ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
|
Post by ioan on Jun 2, 2009 11:41:36 GMT -5
Welcome back Ruse . We missed u. And yes, Novi wants us to believe that every slav on the bolkans is Serb. Which is deffinately not true and the fyroms are part of the Bulgarian group.
|
|
|
Post by macmako on Jun 2, 2009 14:40:34 GMT -5
Again, I reiterate. Greeks that have even a small understanding of Greek history knows whom that history belongs to. Greeks and Greeks only. So Greeks should stop being so petty.
As far as the name is concerned, it is appropriate. No one else has used it for the name of their country, and it is part of the Macedonian Province. Again, stop being so petty.
So I see clearly. Greece veto Macedonia BECAUSE THEY CAN!!!! How childish of Greece then.
|
|
|
Post by chalkedon on Jun 2, 2009 14:46:28 GMT -5
PART OF THE MACEDONIAN PROVINCE. A VERY SMALL PART. TAMAM ?
|
|
|
Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 2, 2009 19:56:08 GMT -5
"Novi, tell me this: am I supposed to use hypnosis or some other unusual approach in order to finally make you understand that the Bulgarian nation was not formed of Bulgars only and there were numerous Slavs who belonged to the so-called Bulgarian group and who took part in this formation as well? It is really exhausting to post this again and again. Why don't you want to be a nice person and do your best to get this into yor head?"
Ruse, l've read sources which explicity state Serbs arrived first and settled amongst the Slavs of vardar, moreover they were swallowed up by the serbs and became serbs. So your telling me the timochani, Branicevichi or even the Dragovichi are slavs of the Bulgarian group, wrong 100%. The main slavic group which was taken by the Bulgars was the severci, and even then it wasn't a smooth union it took 200 years before they started to call themselves Bulgars lmao.
There is no such thing as Slavs of Bulgarian group because before the arrival of croats, slovenes and serbs *common* related slavs inhabited modern serbia, albania and Bulgaria, which with the arrival of serbs had assimilated most of those tribes it had come into contact with.
Most south american indian tribes speak spanish today but their culture is pre-spanish (native), same goes for vardarians, their culture is clearly serbian and mainly speak a simple serbian with bulgarian grammar language, prior to the Exarchate which warped the langauge, the language wasn't how it is spoken today.
|
|
ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
|
Post by ioan on Jun 2, 2009 23:18:44 GMT -5
NOvi, you teory is interesting. Pity it contradicts to all science teories on the matter. It is well established fact that there are eastern slav group (Bulgarians, including fyroms) and western slav group (croats, serbs, bosniacs, montenegrins and slovenes) of the south slavs. But of course that theory is not very dear to you, because u are from the teritory where the transition betwen those 2 groups happens: the Torlakians. And every times u say u did research the matter I wonder: how come there be so many ultra nationalist serbian book on everything concerning fyrom and the torlakians that very strongly CONTRADICT to what every well established sciencetist have to say on the matter?
|
|
|
Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 3, 2009 1:11:20 GMT -5
^ no no no no ioan, these tribes were all inter-related, l've even said this in the Greek forum also, but ANOTHER RELATED SLAVIC TRIBE called the Serbs effectively SWALLOWED these common slavic tribes up with whom it come into contact with, this all occurred 150 years before the arrivial of a Turkic group of Bulgars under the leadership of Khan Asparuch in 681....remember Ioan, the Bulgars only subdued the severci slavic tribe.
The serbs first came to macedonia and spread into vardar via nth greece while 150 years later the Bulgars arrived and settled at the Danube delta.
|
|
ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
|
Post by ioan on Jun 3, 2009 1:24:50 GMT -5
There is not a single truth that Bulgars mixed with severci only. The serbs were Iranians, not Slavs. The slavs in Macedonia mixed with the bulgars of Kuber: there are alot of historic proofs. The tree groups that mixed to produce the Bulgarians of today, also mixed in fyrom: Peonians (Thracians), Bulgars of Kuber and the slavs.
|
|
Atan
Amicus
Posts: 307
|
Post by Atan on Jun 3, 2009 2:15:11 GMT -5
Novi. You confused as.sho.le ;D. I promised I'll post some links for Torlakians. Like I said in my home town live Torlakians who were expelled from the Serbs (so dear to you) from the Pirot area. Here is a link how my people talk (I am from North-West Bulgaria). And this dialect I use when back in my hometown. There is topic in this forum concerning the Torlakians - you can check what they think of themselves. www.severozapad.org/forum/Somewhere I read the idiot named Pyrros said the Western Bulgarians were thought Serbs by the Eastern ones ;D. So much for both your understanding of Bulgarians and history. Read the link above and don't be so harsh to your Eastern brothers ;D. Like I promised later I'll post some pictures how we/Torlakians celebrate Sirni Zagovezni (1st of March). First find yourself and after that talk about Macedonians.
|
|