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Post by rusebg on Jun 13, 2009 2:01:47 GMT -5
It might be crap, Pyrro, but not to the extent to claim a Slavic language as Turkish. And when you support Novi, try not to support such an enormous stupidity because it shows you don't pay too much attention to what is written but by who.
This is not the impression I got. Novi hasn't answered a single inconvinient question so far, he just posts and posts his highly suspicious sources.
I don't like being mistaken for someone else. And in this case you'd better ask Novi if I have attacked Serbia.
Lol, Pyrro, you must be fvcking obsessed with Novi's 'reseraches'... You even ignore all sources that come directly from your country of origin - Greece. I have a proposal for you - why don't you join any geological society and start learning history again? ;D
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Atan
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Post by Atan on Jun 15, 2009 1:56:59 GMT -5
Novi. I have read the crap you posted and I admit I stopped at the point where "Bulgarian is dialect of Serbian". You don't deserve to be read - only crap you're posting without any thought whatsoever. I understand this is all you can but please spare us of your stupiduty. Seriously. I will ask you only this. Its very simple even for you.
If by your logic the Macos were/are Serbs, why your Tito tried to implant (successfully!) them this idea of "Ancient macedonians" bul.lsh.it? Hm?
If they were Serbs they should just join Mother Serbia and that's it. No need for brainwashing. Am I right? If that was the case we won't even have this discussion here right now. Am I right Novi?
Don't come up with Exarchia thing. No such spiritual institution is/was strong enough to change the self-consciousness of one entire ethnicity WITHOUT force - which the Exarchia didn't have. And + it was only several decades for the Exarchia to operate before the Liberation of Bulgaria.
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Atan
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Post by Atan on Jun 15, 2009 2:04:47 GMT -5
One more thing.
Since your Serbia was already free it could very easy overcome the influence of the Exarchia - only in the case if the macos were really serbs. Just think - the Serbian state could supply arms, organize chetas etc. and the Macos would feel much more close to liberty when "Mother" Serbia was near to guide and protect them. This didn't happen Novi. The Bulgarians of Macedonia clearly declared themselves as Bulgarians. They tried to remain with their brothers of East and North and felt very unlucky (as all of Bulgaria with them) when the Berlin Congress left them under the Ottomans.
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Post by rusebg on Jun 15, 2009 3:35:06 GMT -5
Atan, what do you expect from a person who claims that Sofia and Plovdiv were Serbian cities? I don't know why Novi stopped posting this source (quite a mistery, he is very good with constant presentation of ridiculous claims), may be he somehow figured out that was way too much even for his lively imagintion.
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Atan
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Post by Atan on Jun 15, 2009 4:49:57 GMT -5
Ruse - we both know Novi for long time. You know him from these forums even longer than I do . If you remember he was not like that in good old times when he admitted Macedonians are Bulgarians. That time I think it was you and other brothers (quite reasonable guys like Irnik, Banitsa s Boza, Omurtag who unfortunately left these forums) who proved him wrong. From that time to now we have been talking one and same thing ;D - over and over. With no progress ;D. Thanks to Novi's supreme knowledge and understanding of the facts. I doubt it will change but if one continues to spread lies...who knows some idiots may believe him (and the idiots do! We have quite nice example here). So despite we are all tired of such never-ending discussion - we have to oppose Novi's dreams and take him back to Earth . The thing is that Novi can see only the "face of the moon" - but he doesn't have the capability to "imagine" its back and to paint the whole picture. What I mean....I am from North-West Bulgaria - you are from North-East. If we meet and each one of us starts to talk in his native dialect - there will be difference. For sure. But still - the bones, the skeleton of the language remains - its structure is not changed. And we can understand each other perfectly. Now - once we and Serbs were not different that much. The Serbs have influenced West Bulgarians (and vice versa) - no one denies that - and that for our friend Novi is enough to claim we are Serbs. Same goes with his approach for Macos. That idiot Pyrros even came out with a brilliant shiny (in brown) bul.lsh.it that the East Bulgarians think of West as Serbs ;D. How one can talk with such individual? If we look at the bright side of the matters - Novi is just a innocent, harmless guy and we are all having fun here ;D ;D ;D. Novachevic! Have you opened the site I gave you for Torlakians? Can you write something in Torlakian (cyrillic) by the way? I am curious if you are really one of them. Were you able to understand what I gave as quote?
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Post by rusebg on Jun 15, 2009 5:07:20 GMT -5
That was a massive loss, especially Bantsa s boza. The best woman to have ever appeared here. Not until Serbia borders Greece, as his dream is. I don't know when this will happen but we are doomed to read his 'researches' till that miraculous moment occurs. No fvcking way. Novi's researches show that we are totally unable to communicate and won't understand a single word the other is saying. You Atan should show more respect to the thorough researches of this scientist. Which shows my ignorance regarding East Bulgarians. I never thought of Western ones as Serbs. But it is good Pyrros directed me properly and I realized how badly mistaken I have been.
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Atan
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Post by Atan on Jun 15, 2009 5:33:10 GMT -5
;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D
Maybe we should ask Putkosevic and Novachevic for some lessons in Bulgarian grammar, language and history. I see these two form formidable heroic coalition against Bulgarians in every forum they go ;D ;D....And everywhere Putkosevic kindly passes the toilet paper to Novachevic when the last one produces his next "jewel" ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 15, 2009 5:50:39 GMT -5
Easy to dismiss the facts ;D....but unable to prove them wrong, thats o.k because the people who read them, other than you two will realise something they have never realised before ;D.......l'm a thorn in B'lgarska propaganda ;D
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Post by rusebg on Jun 15, 2009 6:50:10 GMT -5
You are not reading, Novi. As I stated, me and Atan are not able to communicate with each other because we are from different regions of Bulgaria. And that is due to your researches only man!!! What bigger proof do you expect to show the results of relentless efforts and strictly scientific researches taken place in libraries that possessthe ultimate knowledge of German geologists?
Don't be modest mate. You are more than this. If Bulgarian propaganda was the dinosaurs, you are the meteorite that exterminated them. If Bulgarian history was the sinful people on earth, you were the god that sent the Flood to destroy them. If Bulgarian propaganda was the haemorhoid on the arse of Balkan history, your researches were the cure that made it disappear.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 15, 2009 8:56:38 GMT -5
^ Ruse, Ruse, Ruse, the irony, go on name me all those Geologist(s), your lying to the public reading this, so who are these other Geologist(s) l've quoted, l thought it was only one!. Remember Ruse, Serbian history doesn't rely on FAKE INSCRIPTIONS and DECEPTIONS like Bulgarian does, nor it doesn't RELY ON MURDERING PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A CULTURE THAT DOESN'T RESEMBLE BULGARIAN, READ:
"Until a few decades ago, the Bulgars, in that part of Southern Serbia which they conquered, regarded all those who celebrated the SLAVA as Serbs. Gilbert in der Maur quotes the following case: during WW1, the Bulgarian troops under the command of first lieutenant Protogerov were ordered to inflict reprisals upon the population east of Kumanovo for an attack made on some Bulgarian troops. Before the reprisal measures were begun, the ENTIRE POPULATION DECLARED THAT IT WAS BULGARIAN IN ORDER TO AVOID BEING PUNISHED. Protogerov was greatly perplexed. "then Protogerov's aides had an idea: THEY ASKED WHO CELEBRATED THE SLAVA. THOSE WHO DID SO WERE SHOT, since the celebration of the slava is a sign that one is a serb: it is a custom which the Bulgars do not have."
Source:
- Gilbert in der Maur, jugoslawien einst und jetzt, Leipzig - Vienna, 1936, pg 330
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jun 15, 2009 12:57:41 GMT -5
Again Novi, only in your dreams is the BItola inscription falsified. It is real, Novi, let see what it is written on it: The Bitola Inscription – 11th century stone inscription of the Bulgarian Tsar Ivan Vladislav commemorating the fortification works on the Bitola fortress. translation from Old Bulgarian In year 6523 (1015) since the creation of the world, this fortress, built and made by Ivan, Tsar of Bulgaria, was renewed with the help and the prayers of Our Most Holy Lady and through the intercession of her twelve supreme apostles. The fortress was built as a haven and for the salvation of the lives of the Bulgarians. The work on the fortress of Bitola commenced on the twentieth day of October and ended on the… This Tsar was Bulgarian by birth, grandson of the pious Nikola and Ripsimia, son of Aaron, who was brother of Samuil, Tsar of Bulgaria, the two who routed the Greek army of Emperor Basil at Stipone where gold was taken… and this… Tsar was defeated by Emperor Basil in 6522 (1014) since the creation of the world in Klyutch (the Battle of Kleidion) and died at the end of the summer. historyofmacedonia.wordpress.com/2007/04/16/bitola-inscription/
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 15, 2009 20:11:23 GMT -5
^ It was found in the same manner as the fake (SUSPICIOUS), so tell us about the fake which Sofia rejected ;D
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jun 15, 2009 23:34:32 GMT -5
During September 1997 a Greek national with "Bulgarian identity" from Voden named Stoidis appeared in Sofia at the National Historical Museum and declared to the Director Bozidar Dimitrov that he has in his possession a stone inscription found in Voden (Edessa) during the reconstruction of a local church. The Director declared the inscription a fake made by Bulgarian nationalists in the 19th Century. Apparently the whole story was published in the Bulgarian daily Kontinent on "02.10.1997."
The "Bitola inscription" was discovered during the demolition of a mosque in Bitola during the 1950's and nobody doubts its veracity.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 16, 2009 0:29:43 GMT -5
^ Good Ioan, now since the fake was found in a similar manner, the whole scienitific fratertity is deeply suspicious about it
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Post by rusebg on Jun 16, 2009 1:28:30 GMT -5
Novi, most stone inscriptions are found when there is something like an old construction. You, as an engineer and a researcher, should know this. Do you think stone inscriptions are likely to pop out from the dusty pages of the books in Australian libraries?
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jun 16, 2009 1:33:56 GMT -5
Novi, your only plus is to try to put doubt in undoubted facts, because you can not proove them wrong. Even you said that Samuel was Bulgarian. So its an inscription of his nephew, why is it so important for you to accept it as falsified when the worlds top scientists said it isnt? Are you claiming now Ioan Radomir as Torlakian or as a Serb?
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 16, 2009 4:24:21 GMT -5
I'm an honest person, l'm a professional structural engineer, but l'm an amateur with deep interest regarding the southern reaches of ex-yugoslavia (Historically). I read the researchers conclusions and post them here for us to read.
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Atan
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Post by Atan on Jun 16, 2009 5:44:38 GMT -5
Novi. Be kind Engineer and answer my question.
Why. Would. Macos. Need. Brainwashing. If. They. Were. Already. Serbs?
Would you like bigger font? Maybe another colour? Can you see fine the upper words?
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 16, 2009 5:57:17 GMT -5
^ No Atan, why would Turks instill a Bulgarian Exarchate to deserbianize the population, read for example:
THE STORY OF JOVAN VELJIC, OF DEBAR, TELLING HOW THE BULGARIAN TEACHERS MADE HIM A BULGAR BY FORCE «
" When in 1886 I had passed the third class of the Bulgarian Lycee in Solun and went home for a rest during the school holidays, I was taught and prompted by my professors of the Bulgarian language and of chemistry, Messrs. Popov and Kulev, and also by the Archimandrite Kozma Pricestanski to show and demonstrate to my people and others that they ought not to go on pronouncing dj and c, but ought to pronounce Id and H instead, and that instead of saying Kuca, vedja, sveca, Djurd- jevdan, gradjanin, etc., they ought to say K'sta, vezda, sveUa, Oeorgiev-dan, grazdanin, etc. And when, in obedience to a request from Mr. Draganov, another of my professors, I collected and brought to him forty national ballads from the neighbour- hood of Debar, he told me thafc these were Serbian ballads, and, in front of me, he began to correct and to alter them according to the Bulgarian pronunciation.
" I was really grieved at the time to hear from him that the ballads from my home were Serbian, and that their language was Serbian, because at the time I was already mad with Bulgarism and with the continual impressing of Bulgarism upon me on the part of Bulgarian teachers. I was even ashamed to speak as
1 Mr. Jovan Veljic, born in Debar. His family has been Serbian for generations. As there was no lycee (secondary school) in Debar, his parents sent him to study at the Bulgarian Lycee in Salonica, where students from Macedonia were boarded and educated free of charge. When his parents realized that their son would become a Bulgar in the Bulgarian school, they removed him from the latter and sent him to a Serbian school instead. He graduated at the Universities of Belgrade and Geneva. When the Serbian Lycee in Salonica was opened, he was appointed one of the professors. At present he resides in Salonica as a retired Serbian professor, and he is always mindful of his Serbian nationality.
SUPPLEMENT II 239
they speak at home, and instead of saying ja and ce, I always used the Bulgarian as and ste. Thus I was taught and persuaded by my Bulgarian teachers, and I hated my sweet mother-tongue and native speech. Now I can feel the purity and sweetness of my Serbian mother-tongue. When I go home I will beg my mother and father to forgive me if I have grieved them by my attempts to induce them to study Bulgarian. Now, under the influence of true teaching, I can see why they looked at me with tears in their eyes because I had lost my native speech and tried to induce them to lose it too. ..." *
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jun 16, 2009 5:59:50 GMT -5
And novi answer for us all: WHY THE FYROMIANS ACCEPT AS "MACEDONIANS" ONLY THEIR RULERS/HEROES THAT DECLARED THEMSELVES B U L G A R I A N? ?? Why do fyromians say that MARKO, DUSHAN and all the others are SERBIAN but NOT FYROMIAN? ??
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