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Post by chalkedon on Apr 21, 2010 8:46:58 GMT -5
yeah, ive been doing some searching myself regarding the slavic incursions in Greece. I came to the conclusion that the Slavic ppl assimilated fully into the Greek ethnos. I see no conflicts with that. I dont think its something to be ashamed of if thats the case. Again, im not an expert on that though...
Il check out that link later on.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 21, 2010 8:52:23 GMT -5
I think the brave ones (Serbs) from mainland just left after the battle of Kosovo. I think the epirot slavs Vojnici ended up in Krajina, as the grave similarities in toponyms show. However, the slavs from Peloponese, they might be indeed killed, or exterminated or absorbed.
my main argument against assimilation, is that i cant see how the predominant group (giving names to places, etc...) would be assimilated by the weaker group.
an other explanation would be, that most of the supposed slavs were indeed "unclear" confused vlahs, who would wear the hat of the slav/greek/vlah/ whatever... This slavicized vlahs, i think were re-hellenized quite easily.. but the tough slavs.... no fucking way.... Those guys either vanished or left....
Remember Chalkedon "Slovene" is one who speaks (while Nemac is the muted one... you know)
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Post by chalkedon on Apr 21, 2010 9:01:13 GMT -5
good point ^ That makes sense too.. yes nemac means mute or dumb. We use it to refer to the germans ;D I may not know much, but that I know
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Post by tsompanos on Apr 21, 2010 9:01:24 GMT -5
its hilarious reading threads with pyrros and novi , sometimes i even think they are the same person novi shows some tolerance to the arbano-vlaho garbage. i dont. Because Novi cannot love Hellenism as i can.... just like i cannot love Serbdom as he can. As a matter of fact Tsompane (=Zupane???) this page of this thread, is an excellent example which proves that Novi and I are two different persons... (its obvious but any way....) Zupane?
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Post by tsompanos on Apr 21, 2010 9:09:58 GMT -5
btw chalkedon are you the same guy (i forgot his name) thats polish/greek or are there 2 on this forum? ive noticed there are alot half greeks half poles for some reason
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 21, 2010 9:54:54 GMT -5
Tsompane, some say the word Tzompanos Tsompanos comes from the word Zupan which used to be an old title. (like Ban, Knez, Knjaz, Car, Princ, Vojvod, etc...) Even today in Croatia there is a city (or is it a canton??) Zupanja.
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Post by tsompanos on Apr 21, 2010 9:56:59 GMT -5
Ok well if you havent noticed it already , im greek how should i know about Zupan ;D
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 21, 2010 9:57:57 GMT -5
Ok well if you havent noticed it already , im greek how should i know about Zupan ;D its good to try to know our historical position in the balkans, and the relation with other peoples...
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Post by hellboy87 on Apr 21, 2010 10:02:27 GMT -5
As they say,no one is pure.That's because people from all over have travelled,conquered and migrated to other places.
Even though no ethnic group is pure,there is a base.A largely indigenous base,usually.
I dont know how the heck Greeks acquired Ethiophian DNA if at all.But whatever it is,most of the genetic make-up of Greeks is not foreign.
DY is probably wanting to start a discussion on it by marvelling about it,or maybe she did it to make herself feel better because "heeeeyyy,the Greeks,they have Black blooood" sh*t,so they're not better than Turks..........
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Post by Kastorianos on Apr 21, 2010 10:22:02 GMT -5
Each region is different...Macedonia does have for example a relatively high number of R1a people...which is rare outside of Macedonia...while Crete has for example a relatively high number of haplogroup G...which you can find usually only on other Greek islands...but not on mainland Greeks.
I say it again...haplogroups alone are not enough to make such conclusions...no reputable scientist would make such a claim...just by comparing the haplogroup-distributions of two countries. Haplogroups are 10.000 years old in average and developed much time before the first nations developed...there could be dozens of reasons why Serbs and Skopjans came out to have a similar hg-distribution in this one study..
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Post by tsompanos on Apr 21, 2010 10:28:16 GMT -5
you know ethiopia is not that far away plus it was once colonised by greeks
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Post by Kastorianos on Apr 21, 2010 10:33:32 GMT -5
if we had ethiopian blood we would have typical ethiopian haplogroups, too...but not one single could be detected yet in a study...
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Post by tsompanos on Apr 21, 2010 10:37:00 GMT -5
i do have a big penis though
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Post by chalkedon on Apr 21, 2010 11:58:51 GMT -5
lol ^ ...
seriously though, haplogroups are worthless. Like kastor mentioned, it only tells you where your ancestors were 20,000 yrs ago.
Hellboy, I dont buy the study. I believe its been debunked and not even publlished in a serious way.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 21, 2010 12:03:51 GMT -5
one thing that most people keep missing here is this. Everybody talk about pure races, pure blood, etc...
Nobody talks about PURE CULTURES.....
lets say 100% greek/latin/slav/etc....
why dont we concentrate on that...... for a second, since its much more important than blood..
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Post by chalkedon on Apr 21, 2010 12:04:50 GMT -5
exactly ^
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Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 21, 2010 19:58:04 GMT -5
"Each region is different...Macedonia does have for example a relatively high number of R1a people...which is rare outside of Macedonia...while Crete has for example a relatively high number of haplogroup G...which you can find usually only on other Greek islands...but not on mainland Greeks.
I say it again...haplogroups alone are not enough to make such conclusions...no reputable scientist would make such a claim...just by comparing the haplogroup-distributions of two countries. Haplogroups are 10.000 years old in average and developed much time before the first nations developed...there could be dozens of reasons why Serbs and Skopjans came out to have a similar hg-distribution in this one study.."
Kastor, just to make myself clear on your position. Are you saying this may infact be a coincidence considering they share similar histories?
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 21, 2010 22:54:35 GMT -5
Novi, you are clapping with one hand, when talking to this arbano-vlah whose ancestors didn't even know more than 100 greek words, which they couldn't pronounce correctly anyway.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Apr 22, 2010 4:52:57 GMT -5
I don't usually bother with checking figures but I felt compelled to this time. This is not true...people with I2a2 (former I1b) and R1a will be usually of slavic origin. Thats about 50% of the Balkans population. R1a levels are high in Slovenians and Croats but are very low in the southern Balkans. FY Macedonians have similar levels to Greeks. I2a levels are also all over the place. High in some pockets in the Balkans and low in others. Even Greece is divided with this marker. Older and thus more native to the Balkans are haplogroups like J2...and E1b1b. These are haplogroups that have definitely not come from the north...but the East (Anatolia). You're right, J2 is older and does come from Anatolia, but that marker is hardly exclusive to Greeks. It's also found in other Balkan people too. Greeks have slightly higher levels but so what, when you consider that Turks have much higher levels than anyone in the Balkans.
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Post by Kastorianos on Apr 22, 2010 5:17:23 GMT -5
Nikola, it does always depend on the str markers you have...there are R1a1 people in the Balkans who do hardly match the Slavs....this means being R1a1 doesnt make you automatically a person of slavic stock. R1a1 has most probably already existed among ancient Greeks. But those R1a1 that are more native to the Balkans do differ noticeably from the STR-markers of the Slav R1a1 or the Indian R1a1. So you can not simplify.. I know people from Kastoria who have full matches (on a low frequency) with Poles...those people are most probably of slavic origin. But I do know people from Samos (island) who are R1a1, too who do not match one single Slav. Same goes for every haplogroup...also I2a2 and every other. A turkish J2 will hardly match a native Greek J2. You can as a Greek be J2 on the other hand...but nevertheless of Armenian or Anatolian...or middle eastern origin....it does always depend on your STR-markers and your matches.
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