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Post by odel on Sept 1, 2011 4:54:33 GMT -5
^^^ point taken. well said. however, you said that the majority of albs in greece are from the lower social layres. but this number is huge, 1,000,000 of albs is about 1/3 of the alb population, no? in addition, i cannot correlate social status and height, in bosna e.g. i doubt any of the 7 feeters there, earns more than 200 euro/month. 1,000,000 is about 1/6th of the Albanian population, but I'd imagine the Albs in Greece to be less than that seeing as I don't believe there's more Albs in Greece than in Southern Albania. A lower socio-economic status will affect the average stature greatly, I doubt Southern-Albanians will become Dutchmen if they eat like Dutchmen but they would definitely become taller. The height of single individuals don't have much to say but when you're 7 feet and above it is partially at least some form of giantism so not really anything to do with socio-economic status. I disagree with C&B though, 2m+ people are considered gigantic everywhere and aren't common sights in any place in the world. Yet I've seen many Albanians that are 2m+, I have one 2m+ person on each side of my family for example. There are people like Edi Rama, King Leka and Visar Ymeri for example all 2m+, King Leka being about 7ft or so. This: There probably would be some people towering over me, I doubt I would feel much like an average Serb being 189 cm tall.
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 1, 2011 4:55:50 GMT -5
^ i agree. talking about UK, it is remarkable how shorter they are in comparison to their germanic neighbors.
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 1, 2011 5:00:33 GMT -5
sorry.... i was exagerating... i heard so many stories about hercegovina... and surely i was emotional.... if i was talking to the pokemon (dingdon - donnie) this is highly probable. i would never say that if i was talking with a normal person.
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Post by missanthropology58 on Sept 1, 2011 5:26:19 GMT -5
that said.... just try this... go out in a night club in banja luka or novi sad, or even BG.... you will feel average, and you will see loads of dudes towering you. Pyrros, I accept that South Slavs are taller than Albanians, no one was arguing the opposite. I just don't see why many of the Greeks and Serbs spout the same old "Albanians are short, weak, skinny etc." tripe, when a large number of them are relying on xenophobic anecdotes from their parents or base their judgments on one particular group of Albanians. For example, many of the Greeks in London are also short in stature and swarthy in complexion in comparison to the average caucasian, but I'm not ignorant enough to claim that the majority of Greeks are the same, since I acknowledge the fact that many Greek Londoners have their roots in Cyprus and therefore may be shorter and darker than the average Greek from Greece. I guess Peter Andre is pretty dark. But Greek Cypriots are White, I know that much. I don't know alot the Turkish Cypriots i've heard there's of Anatolian descent anyway.
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Post by ulf on Sept 1, 2011 5:58:05 GMT -5
This statement is not true. Simply, Serbs from Serbia are lighter then Greeks, we're on pair with Bosnians and maybe just a bit more exotic then Croats(generally from north Croatia). you can live with your dreams of blond sumadinci, but the fact is that even "lale" are darker than the bosnians. just curious, how many times did you go to bosnia? did you ever make a comparison of lets say the average face you see in sarajevo and the average face in beograd? Nah, they have a bit Germanic influence in these areas you visited, because in medieval times it was inhabited with Saxon(we call them "Sasi") miners, but they are not numerous. You also can't compare Belgrade to Sarajevo because Belgrade was inhabited with most Serbs from Montenegro, Herzegovina and Macedonia, while Sarajevo remain pretty much as it was before. Its the same thing in Novi Sad. And Sumadinci are not blond, most of the Serbs are light brown/brown, but blond and black are also not rare.
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Post by ulf on Sept 1, 2011 6:23:21 GMT -5
^^^ point taken. well said. however, you said that the majority of albs in greece are from the lower social layres. but this number is huge, 1,000,000 of albs is about 1/3 of the alb population, no? in addition, i cannot correlate social status and height, in bosna e.g. i doubt any of the 7 feeters there, earns more than 200 euro/month. 1,000,000 is about 1/6th of the Albanian population, but I'd imagine the Albs in Greece to be less than that seeing as I don't believe there's more Albs in Greece than in Southern Albania. A lower socio-economic status will affect the average stature greatly, I doubt Southern-Albanians will become Dutchmen if they eat like Dutchmen but they would definitely become taller. The height of single individuals don't have much to say but when you're 7 feet and above it is partially at least some form of giantism so not really anything to do with socio-economic status. I disagree with C&B though, 2m+ people are considered gigantic everywhere and aren't common sights in any place in the world. Yet I've seen many Albanians that are 2m+, I have one 2m+ person on each side of my family for example. There are people like Edi Rama, King Leka and Visar Ymeri for example all 2m+, King Leka being about 7ft or so. This: There probably would be some people towering over me, I doubt I would feel much like an average Serb being 189 cm tall. There are tall Albanians, nobody denied it. Thing is height among South Slavs varies quite. Thus so for example in my family you got men as tall as 211 cm, but also some with just 172 cm
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 1, 2011 6:34:49 GMT -5
you can live with your dreams of blond sumadinci, but the fact is that even "lale" are darker than the bosnians. just curious, how many times did you go to bosnia? did you ever make a comparison of lets say the average face you see in sarajevo and the average face in beograd? Nah, they have a bit Germanic influence in these areas you visited, because in medieval times it was inhabited with Saxon(we call them "Sasi") miners, but they are not numerous. You also can't compare Belgrade to Sarajevo because Belgrade was inhabited with most Serbs from Montenegro, Herzegovina and Macedonia, while Sarajevo remain pretty much as it was before. Its the same thing in Novi Sad. And Sumadinci are not blond, most of the Serbs are light brown/brown, but blond and black are also not rare. alright, and in vojvodina used to live a lot of germans just some 60 years ago, but neither there was a mix nor do modern lale look blonder than the bosnians... also the blond type in bosnia is nothing like germany/sweden/etc... is more like slovenia/slovakia/czech/etc... and since you do not consider sarajevo as a cosmopolitan place, then how about we compare tuzla and e.g. sabac ?? i think the differences are apparent. another POV. have crossed the borders between serbia and bih or croatia countless times... in every single case, the policemen in bih/hr were blond while the srbijanci darker or dark.
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Post by ulf on Sept 1, 2011 7:07:02 GMT -5
Nah, they have a bit Germanic influence in these areas you visited, because in medieval times it was inhabited with Saxon(we call them "Sasi") miners, but they are not numerous. You also can't compare Belgrade to Sarajevo because Belgrade was inhabited with most Serbs from Montenegro, Herzegovina and Macedonia, while Sarajevo remain pretty much as it was before. Its the same thing in Novi Sad. And Sumadinci are not blond, most of the Serbs are light brown/brown, but blond and black are also not rare. alright, and in vojvodina used to live a lot of germans just some 60 years ago, but neither there was a mix nor do modern lale look blonder than the bosnians... also the blond type in bosnia is nothing like germany/sweden/etc... is more like slovenia/slovakia/czech/etc... and since you do not consider sarajevo as a cosmopolitan place, then how about we compare tuzla and e.g. sabac ?? i think the differences are apparent. another POV. have crossed the borders between serbia and bih or croatia countless times... in every single case, the policemen in bih/hr were blond while the srbijanci darker or dark. Ok, 1st you gotta realize that Serbs in Serbia are barely the same as the one who lived here 100 years ago. 2nd a lot of Germans who lived in Vojvodina never intermixed with Serbs. Even further they hated Serbs. But they were numerous, so they could "afford" not to mixed with non-Germans. The Saxon miners who came to Bosnia were coming in 2 or 3 waves(beside they came in 14/15th century) so there were few of them and they intermixed with local Slavs, who were also light(not blond, but more likely light brown). Beside I got German relatives in my family, and many of them are blond, and when I say blond I mean Oliver Kahn blond or Richard Branson blond. Also another thing you might like to check out... Some time ago I gave a link to Novi Pazar about 6-8th century Slavic settlers in Balkan. It was a PDF file, and whats interesting is that none of them had dinaric or nordic complexion, but rather robust Cro-Magnid types. Here you go: www.scribd.com/doc/15785320/Zivko-Mikic-Anthropological-Traces-of-Slav-Presence-in-Kosovo-and-Metochia
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 1, 2011 7:21:43 GMT -5
^^ interesting but huge..... no time to read this, also since serbs had known named kings since 400+ it would be at least safe to say : 5th century.
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Post by missanthropology58 on Sept 1, 2011 13:08:08 GMT -5
Are the tall Albanians Ghegs?
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Post by terroreign on Sept 1, 2011 13:33:20 GMT -5
Kosovo albanians have the most turk blood of all albs after the mac albs, since both kos and mac were prime ottoman bases and settled by massive amounts of turkic peoples, the tallest albs, the malsores are obviously the ones with the most serb blood, besides their height its due to them being settled in areas originally densely serbian and absorbing serb tribes
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Post by missanthropology58 on Sept 1, 2011 14:13:28 GMT -5
But Ghegs are the part of Albos that have Greek ancestry. ^
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Post by coke&broke on Sept 1, 2011 14:33:36 GMT -5
Kosovo albanians have the most turk blood of all albs after the mac albs, since both kos and mac were prime ottoman bases and settled by massive amounts of turkic peoples, the tallest albs, the malsores are obviously the ones with the most serb blood, besides their height its due to them being settled in areas originally densely serbian and absorbing serb tribes Terror, doesn't trolling ever get tiresome for you?
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 2, 2011 1:46:56 GMT -5
But Ghegs are the part of Albos that have Greek ancestry. ^ one thing i know is that greek arvanites, may not speak the cleanest greek around, and may not exactly match genuine greek mentality, but regarding looks, they are a lot closer to greeks than any red-haired/blond/short alb.
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Post by balkanac on Sept 2, 2011 5:29:02 GMT -5
Everyone with natural blonde hair are in some way a descendant of someone from Scandinavia.
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 2, 2011 5:38:32 GMT -5
Everyone with natural blonde hair are in some way a descendant of someone from Scandinavia. so, i guess all blond muslim Bosniaci, go back to scandinavia... and build their mosques there!! The scandinavian neo-fascists will be so surprised to see taller and blonder people being muslims!! HA HA HA HA
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Post by balkanac on Sept 2, 2011 5:44:18 GMT -5
so, i guess all blond muslim Bosniaci, go back to scandinavia... and build their mosques there!! The scandinavian neo-fascists will be so surprised to see taller and blonder people being muslims!! HA HA HA HA Well, the closest genetic relative of the Bosniaks are the Norwegians. Although, they won't be accepted as Norwegians because they have lived in the Balkans for hundreds of years and have a Slavic language and culture. Also possibly because most Bosniaks are Muslim, and their seems to be slight Islamophobia due to the fear of Islamic terrorism.
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 2, 2011 5:55:00 GMT -5
Although, they won't be accepted as Norwegians because they have lived in the Balkans for hundreds of years and have a Slavic language and culture. Nothing of a shock regarding language : Does "Dansk" "Svensk" "Svenska" "Huqsvarna" sound any germanic? Those dudes had been slavicized and then germanized ages before the first Serb in Bosnia turned into catholicism-bogomilism-islam.
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Post by balkanac on Sept 2, 2011 6:04:23 GMT -5
Nothing of a shock regarding language : Does "Dansk" "Svensk" "Svenska" "Huqsvarna" sound any germanic? Those dudes had been slavicized and then germanized ages before the first Serb in Bosnia turned into catholicism-bogomilism-islam. Yes, they don't sound very Germanic, do they? I heard that Germanic tribes in Eastern Poland were either Slavicised, killed or expelled by the Slavs, it would explain the German admixture in Poles. And the first Serb in Bosnia probably never converted, but maybe some of his descendants converted to Bogumilism. All I know is Orthodox Christians in Bosnia didn't start identifying themselves as Serbs until the 17th century, and the same with Catholics and Croats. Although, the first ruler of Bosnia (Back when it was a vassal of the Byzantine Empire) was a Serb, but he was more like a Duke or a governor.
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 2, 2011 6:13:35 GMT -5
Hmm, a lot of Bosnian Serbs fought with Srbijanci Serbs during 15 cent. Does the Mrnjavcevic brothers remind of anything? Now about the germanic vs slavic tribes etc.... i know that Berlin till 1150 AD belonged to the slavs, and the local ruler was named Pribislav. After his death the land fell into germanic hands. So i guess it could be the other way around....
I agree that a lot of slavifications happened, but in most of the cases as Florin Curta shows, those happened on a volunteer basis. Romans/Greeks/Germans run to the ranks of Slavs to live a free life.
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