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Post by meltdown711 on Jan 7, 2009 14:14:41 GMT -5
Adolf, if you were a "Turk" in Epirus, it most likely meant you were simply a native Muslim. In which case even if he was, which he is not, it would still mean he could be anyone of those three...  The only real Turkoi were a small group of Greek speaking Muslims who could claim descent from Turks settled early on during the 1430's. They were landowners and were also heavily mixed with the local population (they had begun taking native wives early on) and couldnt even speak Turkish anymore exempting a few. When the Ottoman Empire lost control of the area, they became full on Orthodox Christians. There is one of those in my family, he was from Janina, however he was the great-grandfather of my of my cousins and I have no link to him. Whats more, he didnt look remotely "Turkish"... My father, unlike this man, was no a Sunni, but rather a Bektashi; meaning his ancestors were converted probably through the Devshirme. Learn a little about the Balkans and youll be surprised at what you find... |
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Anthologic
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Post by Anthologic on Jan 7, 2009 16:53:12 GMT -5
I support 1-4, except no slovenia/moldova/hungary. Better this than being occupied by lotsa indians/chinese, etc.
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Post by adolfkarderi on Jan 7, 2009 18:14:54 GMT -5
so that only leaves, of course, your fathers origins are Turkish!( Even though it appears that you are instigating I will comment.) Aren't there Vlachs in Epirus also? Bektashi Vlachs? really? whoa your Hellenic wisdom would put Socrates to shame. lol |
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Post by adolfkarderi on Jan 7, 2009 18:18:08 GMT -5
Adolf, if you were a "Turk" in Epirus, it most likely meant you were simply a native Muslim. In which case even if he was, which he is not, it would still mean he could be anyone of those three... The only real Turkoi were a small group of Greek speaking Muslims who could claim descent from Turks settled early on during the 1430's. They were landowners and were also heavily mixed with the local population (they had begun taking native wives early on) and couldnt even speak Turkish anymore exempting a few. When the Ottoman Empire lost control of the area, they became full on Orthodox Christians. There is one of those in my family, he was from Janina, however he was the great-grandfather of my of my cousins and I have no link to him. Whats more, he didnt look remotely "Turkish"... My father, unlike this man, was no a Sunni, but rather a Bektashi; meaning his ancestors were converted probably through the Devshirme. Learn a little about the Balkans and youll be surprised at what you find... I don't know why you're winking wehn u said Devshirme. all that means is that ur father's ancestors were slaves of the sultan wink wink lol dumbass "Could be anyone of those three" Not really. Your fathers ancestors were probably Cham or Turk lol (you give new meaning to the term TurkAlbanian ;D) since hes Bektashi so he couldnt be an Arvanite. the Greek part of Epirus has been majority Albanian in the past 100 yrs, the real Greeks of Epirus lived in southern Albania. Later on there was a population exhange/expulsion/redistribution. The term Epirote does not refer to an ethnicity so you denying Cham, Arvanite, Vlach, Turk and Greek roots then wtf else could he have been? A catholic Malesor maybe who got lost? You make it easy to be an instigator wehn u make absurd claims. i'll learn more about the balkans wehn u learn mroe about your own family tree |
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Post by oszkarthehun on Jan 7, 2009 20:06:14 GMT -5
I support 1-4, except no slovenia/moldova/hungary. Better this than being occupied by lotsa indians/chinese, etc. I doubt Hungary,Slovenia or Croatia would be interested in such a Union. I dont consider any of these countries to be particuliarly Balkan. |
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Anthologic
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Post by Anthologic on Jan 7, 2009 21:15:11 GMT -5
You dont consider croatia to be part of the balkans? thats odd considering YOU CANNOT CHANGE GEOGRAPHY.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 7, 2009 23:13:09 GMT -5
hahaha, true
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CiKoLa
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Post by CiKoLa on Jan 7, 2009 23:15:55 GMT -5
I doubt Hungary,Slovenia or Croatia would be interested in such a Union.
I dont consider any of these countries to be particuliarly Balkan.
I agree.
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Post by meltdown711 on Jan 7, 2009 23:53:31 GMT -5
That means someone in the Ottoman Empire came to my village, saw one of my great grandfathers and said "this man should be in the elite army group of our empire, which could very possibly lead him to the highest position possible second to the Sultan." That means something. And I know plenty about my family tree, don't worry. Just focus on learning. PS: In the Balkans, the Devshirme system was largely usurped by Albanians and Bosniaks, while Serbs, Greeks, Vlachs etc. etc. were also included, most remained Albo and Bosniac.... so it makes me feel quite comfortable for my ethnicity. |
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Post by adolfkarderi on Jan 8, 2009 0:01:28 GMT -5
That means someone in the Ottoman Empire came to my village, saw one of my great grandfathers and said "this man should be in the elite army group of our empire, which could very possibly lead him to the highest position possible second to the Sultan." That means something. And I know plenty about my family tree, don't worry. Just focus on learning. No need to sugercoat it, it just means they were turned into slaves of the Sultan. www.conservapedia.com/DevshirmeDevshirme is from Turkish, meaning "gathering". Devshirme was a system that took place under the Ottoman Empire. The system of devshirme was introduced under Sultan Murad 2 in the 1420's. The sultan would collect Christian boys from the Balkans and turn them into his slaves. Usually the boys were around the ages of 8 or 10 but sometimes even as old as 20. The purpose of this was to ensure that the sultan would have loyal troops and civil servants. The devshirme collection was performed by a higher Janissary officer (who often would themselves be of devshirme origin.) Normally around the age of 20, when they were finished training, the boys would be placed in the army or civil service and could become landowners. A few would become governors or viziers after receiving an education in the palace school. The devshirme never were granted total freedom. |
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Jan 8, 2009 1:30:14 GMT -5
so that only leaves,
I was referring to that part and was just making conversation.
PS: My comment was directed at MD.
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Post by meltdown711 on Jan 8, 2009 3:36:26 GMT -5
Instead of using conservapedia how about a real one:
In practice yes, these men were "slaves"(Kapikulu was a traditional name for many of them, meaning "door slaves" since they were the ones who guarded the Sultans door) but in reality they held massive power and influence in the Ottoman court and this was the principal reason for their destruction. The official Ottoman term for Slave, which i forgot, was never used in documents referring to them. Whats more my family conversion happened some time in the late 1700 to early 1800, at a time when the Janissaries held more and more influence until their destruction under the reformist Sultan... By then the traditional Devshirme mentioned in your article was long long gone and had since deteriorated.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Jan 8, 2009 21:26:51 GMT -5
You dont consider croatia to be part of the balkans? thats odd considering YOU CANNOT CHANGE GEOGRAPHY. Croatia is more of a central Euro style country. |
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Post by Alb_Korcar on Jan 8, 2009 23:33:10 GMT -5
You dont consider croatia to be part of the balkans? thats odd considering YOU CANNOT CHANGE GEOGRAPHY. Croatia is more of a central Euro style country. no its not its part of the balkans, so is Slovenia and Hungary |
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Post by Teuta1975 on Jan 9, 2009 0:37:56 GMT -5
Interesting thought. What will the official language be?  The poorest countries get together to impoverish also the others that are not that poor....I like this Union idea...Albania may benefit from it...will Greeks like it? |
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CiKoLa
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Post by CiKoLa on Jan 9, 2009 1:19:50 GMT -5
The poorest countries get together to impoverish also the others
Thats why so many serbs are eager to see Croatia join and are the biggest opponents when someone states that Croatia isnt in the Balkans.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Jan 9, 2009 1:45:30 GMT -5
Serbs aren't the biggest opponents. The OVERWHEALMING majority of people think Croatia is part of the Balkans. Even 40% of Croats do. There is no agenda for anyone to want Croatia to be part of the Balkans. Who cares. It just is.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Jan 9, 2009 1:46:55 GMT -5
I doubt Hungary,Slovenia or Croatia would be interested in such a Union.
I dont consider any of these countries to be particuliarly Balkan.I agree. I disagree. |
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Post by Kassandros on Jan 9, 2009 8:07:21 GMT -5
A Union... with borders to Aphganistan, Middle East, Iraq etc? No to that option. Keep Turkey outside. We have already enough problems...
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 9, 2009 9:13:28 GMT -5
I would only support a Union between Croatia/Slovenia/BiH/CG/SRB/slavoMAK... that is the original yugoslavia.
It is the only rational formation...
A union including cyprus but not BiH is completely unnatural....
Maybe the addition of Bulgaria would feasible to a certain extent, but Greece and Romania are completely irrelevant in anything Slavic.
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The only real Turkoi were a small group of Greek speaking Muslims who could claim descent from Turks settled early on during the 1430's. They were landowners and were also heavily mixed with the local population (they had begun taking native wives early on) and couldnt even speak Turkish anymore exempting a few. When the Ottoman Empire lost control of the area, they became full on Orthodox Christians. There is one of those in my family, he was from Janina, however he was the great-grandfather of my of my cousins and I have no link to him. Whats more, he didnt look remotely "Turkish"...
