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Post by myzeqari on Mar 21, 2008 16:49:59 GMT -5
its a weeping shame how greeks have cowardly assimilated a great warrior albanian arvanite population and agressively tried to wipe out all traces of*great Souliot legacy, for shame.....for shame!!!
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 21, 2008 18:24:17 GMT -5
Stop opening up threads about Greeks in Albanian forum...would a mod please transfer this to the Greek forum....
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Post by ILIRI I MADH on Mar 21, 2008 18:34:42 GMT -5
canaris before you claim them as greek present some proof, I will have to present you Marko Bocari who said that Suliots are ALBANIAN...you have no proof that they are greeks sorry!
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 21, 2008 18:45:10 GMT -5
Just because they were living in an area now occupied by Albanians.... doesn't make them Albanians.... many Greeks were living there just as many Albanians were living in Greece....
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Post by myzeqari on Mar 21, 2008 18:50:35 GMT -5
Stop opening up threads about Greeks in Albanian forum...would a mod please transfer this to the Greek forum.... ==============there is an unbelivable amount of evidence that testifies that they were albanian, there are authentic documents and first person accounts from outsiders which documented the way the suliots lived and about their national pertinence, don't u ever come in here and distort our history u ------------------------insulting the immortal Suliots by comparing them to greeks, the f**king audacity mate!!!! =================================
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 21, 2008 19:06:14 GMT -5
Having a meltdown? I got a solution..... go take a crap... put your face up close to it..and smack real hard.... no one will know the difference when they see your crap filled face..
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Post by myzeqari on Mar 21, 2008 19:15:18 GMT -5
m'ha kar-is,
u just can't stand the fact that we have such a strong national bond, do you, all the senturies of perpetrating, scheming, behind the scenes cunnivery and malice, albanians still stands tall, u tried to assimilate, tried to annex our territories, tried to downplay our legacy ties, u tried genocide against the chams, but we are still stronger than ever, and its fucking killin u, coz u know in 10 years time we will squeeze the life out you, u know what we are capable of, its killing you, its gnawing away at your pride.
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 21, 2008 19:24:23 GMT -5
The Σουλιώτες (Souliotes), also known as Suliots and anciently as Σελλοί (Selloi), are the inhabitants of Σούλι (Souli) in the mountains of Mourgas in Epirus in northwestern Greece. They are the villagers of the "Τετραχώρι" (Τetrahori -- four villages) who made themselves famous in the 19th century by their resistance to the Ottoman Empire. Ptolemy (Geographica, 3, 15) calls Epirus "primordial Hellas" and Aristotle (Meteorologica, I.352a) reports that an ancient cataclysm was most severe "in ancient Hellas, in between Dodona and the Achelous river [...], the land occupied by Selloi (or Helloi) and Graeci who later came to be known as Hellenes." The Souli were addressed by the Greek poet Andreas Kalvos (1792 – 1869) as the modern descendants of the Selloi, in his ode "Eis Souli" or "To the Souli". In support of the poet's belief, a Greek historian, Constantine Pantazi proved that the area that is currently Epirus in northwestern Greece was populated by one of the first ancient Hellenic tribes, the Selloi since 800 BC. The area was called Thesprotia by the Selloi. About 1600 A.D., the Souli migrated from the plains of Thesprotia up into the mountains of Mourgas, where a confederacy of clans presented a united front to the Ottomans [1]. www.mlahanas.de/Greece/History/Souliotes.html.
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Post by toskali4springbrk on Mar 21, 2008 19:31:34 GMT -5
Suli doesnt come from Seloi or any such ridiculous derivative. Its an Albanian word meaning "summit"(of a mountain). Suliot literally means "those who live on the summit" or "peak"... the -iot is a Greek borrowing obviously.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 21, 2008 19:37:14 GMT -5
MYZ you have worn out your kneepads.... and your lips.... give it a rest.... you are Albanian..it's not your fault after all... and contrary to the crap you spew here.... Albanians have killed each others by the droves.....during the ottoman times... so fuk off with the bulchit...
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Post by myzeqari on Mar 21, 2008 19:44:06 GMT -5
temper, temper Kanaris, u gotta retain that fucking composure man, think about it, without it u are simply a mere mortal, susceptable to outbursts, don't fall down to our level, no place for a greek to be
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Post by Kastorianos on Mar 21, 2008 20:04:34 GMT -5
The Souliotes were greek and albanian speaking people...it wasnt a pure matter...but they identified themselves as Greeks and not albanians, they fought for a free orthodox Greece and not a free muslim Albania, which they would see as an enemy and not a home country...
You Albanians are the descendants and the children of the Albanian country which gained its independency in 1912, we Greeks are the descendants of the Greek country, which gained its independence in 1830...the Souliotes are a part of our history, not yours. You can say whatever you want, you can cry and bang your heads against a wall but the Souliotes are exclusively our ancestors, not yours...the Souliotes descendants live in Greece and they feel Greek....because their forefathers died for this country which was their home country as it is today ours.
So who gives you the right to claim our forefathers, talk about your own people....Skanderbeg.... Mother Teresa...ali pasha...whatever.
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Post by toskali4springbrk on Mar 21, 2008 20:08:37 GMT -5
Suliots were principally Albanian-speaking. The man issue for them was rights over land. They came into conflict with Ali Pasha due to the fact that Ali wanted increasingly centralized control over their territory in order to stabilize the area and keep the trade routes free from Klephtic attacks.
I wont against the idea argue that they fought for Greek ideals. However, to many Albs its a matter of pride in the 'warrior ideal' of the Albanians of old days.
Personally, for me they are irrelevant. However, Im also against the Greek reinterpretation of how these people saw themselves as and what their ideals were completely. Suliots had no problem in ransacking lowland Greek villages to their own benefit and at times maintained a harsh authority over subject people(who were often Greeks and Albanians). In terms of mentality, these people were far more like a northern Albanian than an urban Tosk or Greek. They were violent and murderous and saw banditry and thievery not as crime but as a means to an end.
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Post by Kastorianos on Mar 21, 2008 20:15:27 GMT -5
The Albanians from the Albania of 1912 and their descendants wouldnt give a rats ass about the Souliotes if they woulnt have been brave warriors...
The whole thing is you people just see another chance here to score some further points of honour you apparently are in great need of...
To us they are no means to an end but our ancestors, on the one hand for every Greek who sees his roots in the Greece of 1830 and on the other hand for every Greek who has a blood relation to the Souliotes.
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Post by toskali4springbrk on Mar 21, 2008 20:19:27 GMT -5
The average Albanian still doesnt care. But what Albanians identify with today has changed. Unlike many of our neighbors, Albanians have moved towards an almost entirely ethnocentric based identity regardless of religion. To many now it seems obvious that if these people spoke Alb and were descendants of northern Albanians, then surely they have a right to their legacy. A Greek may trace his roots to those people today, but that means that he also traces his roots to the people who live in the northern parts of Albania.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 21, 2008 20:25:09 GMT -5
If we both connect to them... we will never be able to discuss this in a civilized matter.I know Greeks with last names like Souli.... I wouldn't dare tell them they are not Greeks... and I am sure it's likewise for you guys.... so what are we discussing here is feelings about it..
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Post by Kastorianos on Mar 21, 2008 20:44:37 GMT -5
Did you understand what I wrote? You cannot claim other peoples' ancestors. And as for the north albania thing...I dont know where the Souliotes came from and I dont think anyone can say with absolute secure.....you also cannot say all Athenians (even the old-established) are descendants of the ancient ones... so you can refer to them but you surely dont have to, as you are demanding here since racial purity does not exist. So I can say Im some proud Souliot without saying that Im simultaneously a descendant of northern albanians.
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Mar 21, 2008 23:07:01 GMT -5
In a book written by a Greek author about 18-19 century Balkans it says that the Albanians were venerated throughout the Balkans for their warrior-like abilities. Their clothes and way of life were emulated by many across the region.
Also in "Salonica, City of Ghosts: Christians, Muslims and Jews 1430-1950" one can read how the Albanian population rebelled year after year and how the authorities had to take extreme measures, even tried expelling them all, and still did not succeed in containing them.
Judging by their warrior-like nature, if you asked Souliotes 200 hundred years ago what did they identify as they'd probably say Albanians, but I doubt the same can be said today.
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Post by toskali4springbrk on Mar 21, 2008 23:58:38 GMT -5
You cant compare an urban sphere to a tribal one. Especially one that has seen the upheavals that Athens has. On the otherhand, Suliots were tribal conglomerates. They had some basis of common identity to unite them. In fact, it was probably the same thing that carried them into Epirus.
And btw, when Ali Pasha finally signed a peace with them and allowed them to return to their lands, the unifying basis of this treaty was that both he and the Suliots carried a similar attribute: Albanian ethnicity.
Nevertheless, northern Albania(which is what is generally attested to have been the original territory of the Suliots) would be a starting point.
An Albanian is an Albanian, a Greek is a Greek. I cant "claim" their origin, sure, but I can say that that person is part of my ethnic sphere and therefore has some ties to me.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Mar 22, 2008 1:50:44 GMT -5
Albanians have shown themselves as good warriors...all they need is a good leader! Greeks have had Leaders but not warriors...thus Suliots enter the scene for many reasons (not excluding their personal profit)... Albanians are good when it comes at Wars and there is no difference if they are from North or South! It's something inside us, it stays in our veins and it comes to my mind when I argue here...
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