Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Jul 11, 2009 15:58:56 GMT -5
I found this interesting and it's not the first time I have read that the Albanians that fled the mongols were mistaken as Greeks.... These people and the Arvanites are the real deal.... _______________________________________________________________ Albania was anciently inhabited by a people called the Illyrians and became a province of the Roman Empire. Later, as part of the Byzantine Empire, it was Orthodox in faith. The peoples north of the Shkumbi River became identified as Ghegs and those to the south as Tosks, with different dialects spoken in each region. In the Middle Ages, Goths, Bulgars, Slavs and even Italo-Normans invaded Albania. By the fourteenth century, Albania was part of a sovereign Serbian kingdom that included other Balkan regions ruled by Stefan Dushan with the support of local lords such as, in Middle Albania, Gjon Kastrioti. By 1400, the menace from Turkish expansion was becoming serious. Constantinople fell in 1453, an event which according to some historians marks the end of the "Middle Ages."
An Albanian resistance to foreign domination coincided with Ottoman expansion in the Balkans. This was led by the Albanian patriot Gjergi (George) Kastrioti "Scanderbeg," son of Gjon. Across the Adriatic, Scanderbeg found support from Pope Pius II, the Venetians, and particularly Alfonso, King of Aragon, Naples and Sicily (died 1458). On several occasions, the Neapolitan kings hired Albanians as mercenaries
Despite heroic efforts, Albania fell to the Turks, and Islam was widely introduced in the region. In Italy, Alfonso and his successors offered refuge to thousands of Albanians. Scanderbeg himself died in 1468, and in the decades to follow waves of refugees arrived in southern Italy, particularly in Calabria. A few were nobles and some had been soldiers, while others were clergy, farmers or craftsmen --all in search of a better life and freedom from Turkish oppression. In 1480 the Turks attacked the Italian coast and briefly occupied the city of Otranto. In the following two decades, one Albanian town after another fell to Turkish control.
In Sicily, several towns were founded or repopulated by the Albanians, who in Sicilian records were often described as "Greeks," Albanians, Slavs or even "Tartars." These "Arbereshe" communities still exist today.
In Sicilian land census (rivelli) records dating from the 1490s, the early Albanians' surnames are somewhat Italianized, perhaps because many were assumed or modified in Sicily based on nicknames. It is believed that most of the refugees arriving in Italy bore simple patronymics. Early Albanian acts of baptism and marriage in Sicily are sometimes recorded in Greek characters with some Latin and even Sicilian phrases.
The Albanians arriving in Sicily were Orthodox Christians. By 1600, under the Spanish rule of Sicily, their parishes had fallen under Roman Catholic "Uniate" jurisdiction, though use of the Byzantine rite was permitted. In towns settled by the Albanians, there are usually two main churches --one "Latin" and the other "Greek." Today, the Martorana parish (in Palermo) is part of the Byzantine Catholic diocese of Piana degli Albanesi. (Back in Albania, Islam became popular, and many of today's Albanians are Muslims.)
The Albanian language has been preserved in the towns populated by the immigrants. As one might expect, the language bears the marks of fifteenth century grammar and diction. In some cases, the Church itself encouraged the Albanians to settle on formerly monastic lands, particularly in western Sicily. In others, feudal lords welcomed the new residents. Messina and Palermo boasted the largest urban Albanian communities in Sicily. The Sicilian towns founded or repopulated by the Albanians are Piana degli Albanesi, Santa Cristina Gela, Mezzojuso, Contessa Entellina, Palazzo Adriano, Sant' Angelo Muxaro, Bronte, Biancavilla and San Michele in Ganzaria.
By 1300 the Orthodox parishes and monasteries of Sicily had been Latinized. (That is to say, they had become Roman Catholic.) Today's "Byzantine" presence, such as it exists, is attributed to the Albanians.
The Albanians in Sicily came from various parts of Albania, but their Sicilian communities were linked by common bonds, and marriages between spouses from different Arberesh towns were not unusual. It would be fair to describe the Albanians' arrival as the largest single historical "immigration" into Sicily, as distinguished from a military conquest or mass colonization. By 1500, there were probably over a thousand Albanian families in Sicily, and many thousands of today's Sicilians are their descendants.About the Author: Palermo native Vincenzo Salerno has written biographies of several famous Sicilians, including Frederick II and Giuseppe di Lampedusa. Best of Sicily
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Aris
Amicus
Greek Troll
Posts: 832
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Post by Aris on Jul 11, 2009 16:11:16 GMT -5
I found this interesting and it's not the first time I have read that the Albanians that fled the mongols were mistaken as Greeks.... These people and the Arvanites are the real deal.... _______________________________________________________________ Albania was anciently inhabited by a people called the Illyrians and became a province of the Roman Empire. Later, as part of the Byzantine Empire, it was Orthodox in faith. The peoples north of the Shkumbi River became identified as Ghegs and those to the south as Tosks, with different dialects spoken in each region. In the Middle Ages, Goths, Bulgars, Slavs and even Italo-Normans invaded Albania. By the fourteenth century, Albania was part of a sovereign Serbian kingdom that included other Balkan regions ruled by Stefan Dushan with the support of local lords such as, in Middle Albania, Gjon Kastrioti. By 1400, the menace from Turkish expansion was becoming serious. Constantinople fell in 1453, an event which according to some historians marks the end of the "Middle Ages."
An Albanian resistance to foreign domination coincided with Ottoman expansion in the Balkans. This was led by the Albanian patriot Gjergi (George) Kastrioti "Scanderbeg," son of Gjon. Across the Adriatic, Scanderbeg found support from Pope Pius II, the Venetians, and particularly Alfonso, King of Aragon, Naples and Sicily (died 1458). On several occasions, the Neapolitan kings hired Albanians as mercenaries
Despite heroic efforts, Albania fell to the Turks, and Islam was widely introduced in the region. In Italy, Alfonso and his successors offered refuge to thousands of Albanians. Scanderbeg himself died in 1468, and in the decades to follow waves of refugees arrived in southern Italy, particularly in Calabria. A few were nobles and some had been soldiers, while others were clergy, farmers or craftsmen --all in search of a better life and freedom from Turkish oppression. In 1480 the Turks attacked the Italian coast and briefly occupied the city of Otranto. In the following two decades, one Albanian town after another fell to Turkish control.
In Sicily, several towns were founded or repopulated by the Albanians, who in Sicilian records were often described as "Greeks," Albanians, Slavs or even "Tartars." These "Arbereshe" communities still exist today.
In Sicilian land census (rivelli) records dating from the 1490s, the early Albanians' surnames are somewhat Italianized, perhaps because many were assumed or modified in Sicily based on nicknames. It is believed that most of the refugees arriving in Italy bore simple patronymics. Early Albanian acts of baptism and marriage in Sicily are sometimes recorded in Greek characters with some Latin and even Sicilian phrases.
The Albanians arriving in Sicily were Orthodox Christians. By 1600, under the Spanish rule of Sicily, their parishes had fallen under Roman Catholic "Uniate" jurisdiction, though use of the Byzantine rite was permitted. In towns settled by the Albanians, there are usually two main churches --one "Latin" and the other "Greek." Today, the Martorana parish (in Palermo) is part of the Byzantine Catholic diocese of Piana degli Albanesi. (Back in Albania, Islam became popular, and many of today's Albanians are Muslims.)
The Albanian language has been preserved in the towns populated by the immigrants. As one might expect, the language bears the marks of fifteenth century grammar and diction. In some cases, the Church itself encouraged the Albanians to settle on formerly monastic lands, particularly in western Sicily. In others, feudal lords welcomed the new residents. Messina and Palermo boasted the largest urban Albanian communities in Sicily. The Sicilian towns founded or repopulated by the Albanians are Piana degli Albanesi, Santa Cristina Gela, Mezzojuso, Contessa Entellina, Palazzo Adriano, Sant' Angelo Muxaro, Bronte, Biancavilla and San Michele in Ganzaria.
By 1300 the Orthodox parishes and monasteries of Sicily had been Latinized. (That is to say, they had become Roman Catholic.) Today's "Byzantine" presence, such as it exists, is attributed to the Albanians.
The Albanians in Sicily came from various parts of Albania, but their Sicilian communities were linked by common bonds, and marriages between spouses from different Arberesh towns were not unusual. It would be fair to describe the Albanians' arrival as the largest single historical "immigration" into Sicily, as distinguished from a military conquest or mass colonization. By 1500, there were probably over a thousand Albanian families in Sicily, and many thousands of today's Sicilians are their descendants.About the Author: Palermo native Vincenzo Salerno has written biographies of several famous Sicilians, including Frederick II and Giuseppe di Lampedusa. Best of Sicily ;D Kana , were did you find this crap ? There are more mosques in Thraki that in all Albania and Kosova together ! ;D
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on Jul 11, 2009 16:21:44 GMT -5
This is entirely attributed to the Orthodox Church, since being Orthodox meant being Greek in the eyes of many, and geography, since many of the Arberesh came from Greece itself where their ancestors had previously immigrated. But this doesn't mean much ... people have called me "Yugoslav" when I've told them I am from Kosova ... questioning my explanation about how we and the Yugoslavs are two different nations.
The same thing occured in this historical example ... human ignorance so common today, was even more common during the Middle Age. What matters is that these guys called themselves and call themselves Albanians.
The real deal? Because they were confused with Greeks? LOL.
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Post by leshte on Jul 11, 2009 16:29:42 GMT -5
Ok if the Arbereshe and the Arvanites are the real deal meaning both of them were Albanian stock that left Albania after the death of Scanderbeg ( it was called Arberia back then, or Arbnia in Geg); then why all the fuss coming from you Kanaris about how the arvanites were Greek who later turned into Albanians who later turned into Greek again. Why insist on the Arvanites being different from Arberesh; meaning Albanians who left Albania after Scanderbeg who are now citizens of another country where each one of them has chosen individually I guess to which nationallity their conscience belongs to after all these centuries.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jul 11, 2009 16:29:47 GMT -5
It took a while for the Albanian communities to fully acclimatize themselves to southern Italy. One particular problem was the issue of blood feuds and arms bearing. Apparently once the Albanians settled, local lords put prohibitions against them carrying weapons, particularly firearms.
In time, the communities became entirely docile.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jul 11, 2009 16:31:54 GMT -5
Yup, what the article says above is wrong. Islam isnt a popular religion for many Albanian... Islam is the religion of majority of Albanians. As for what your saying, I highly doubt it.
Who cares about them anymore? The fascination with the Arberesh is mostly because Albanians like having groups outside. They are a novelty for Albanians and nothing much. A link to our past. Albanians were once Christians, today we are not.
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Post by hellboy87 on Jul 11, 2009 16:53:23 GMT -5
INTRESTING!!!
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Post by luarasi on Jul 11, 2009 21:12:02 GMT -5
I found this interesting and it's not the first time I have read that the Albanians that fled the mongols were mistaken as Greeks.... These people and the Arvanites are the real deal.... _______________________________________________________________ People get mistaken all the time, I for once have mistaken Greeks for Arabs or Turks, but that doesn't necessarily make them Arabs.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Jul 11, 2009 23:25:19 GMT -5
I know what you mean... happens to me all the time..I mistaken triangular headed Albos as having Down's syndrome.... now that sucks... a nation of Downies...
Point is the Arberesh and Arvanites were always Greek.... period... they got the hell outta of hell.... when the hordes took over.
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Post by leshte on Jul 12, 2009 0:39:54 GMT -5
O, now I see the Doctor of sciences above has come to a conclusion; case closed now. Hey Kanaris how do you explain that to this day not only they speak Albanian; but they come to Albania in our own festivals, they also have their festivals there in Italy in Albanian. They wave the double headed eagle, red and black flag. Real contribution to our culture through literature the Arberesh have made through the following: Jeronim DeRada, Zef Serembe, Jul Variboba, Nikolle Chetta etc etc. Wait, wait. Here's what comes next from the greek genius. They were Greeks who later turned Albanian, they went to Italy and turned Greek but later they turned Albanian again and that is why the identify themselves as Albanian today. Check the web a little when Arberesh Joseph DioGuardi, leader of the Albanian civic league here in NYC, goes to his village in Italy. The mayor there is another Arberesh who greets him in Albanian and speaks to him in Albanian. Just youtube it.
Hint: The place was called Arberia back then and here you have the Arberesh and the Arvanite. Arberia -> Arberesh-> Arvanite.
Its good to think sometimes, especially before you write.
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Post by mendor on Jul 12, 2009 3:52:26 GMT -5
It's rediculous ,and than you ask why Albanians get angery and b.chits begins again.
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Post by telemaque on Jul 12, 2009 6:18:26 GMT -5
what shouldn't we read in here...! the biggest stupidity on earth...but when you know who said that, no suprise :Canaris the Big Hole, self nothingness...
no doubt that arvanites are albanians...
but the wish of Greeks to claim Arbereshes too is simply JEALOUSY,
btw we are going to ALBANIZE GREECE !!!
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Lib-Fier
Amicus
Bricklayer 'works for meals'
Posts: 1,092
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Post by Lib-Fier on Jul 12, 2009 6:50:50 GMT -5
why are you indulging this kebab stand owner? you need to ask yourself this, how relevant really is the opinion of a dark, bloated, fat greasy greek midget with stumpy limbs?
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Aris
Amicus
Greek Troll
Posts: 832
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Post by Aris on Jul 12, 2009 9:03:33 GMT -5
Yup, what the article says above is wrong. Islam isnt a popular religion for many Albanian... Islam is the religion of majority of Albanians. As for what your saying, I highly doubt it. Who cares about them anymore? The fascination with the Arberesh is mostly because Albanians like having groups outside. They are a novelty for Albanians and nothing much. A link to our past. Albanians were once Christians, today we are not. We are Atheists ! You fucking majmun !
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Post by luarasi on Jul 12, 2009 11:16:03 GMT -5
I know what you mean... happens to me all the time..I mistaken triangular headed Albos as having Down's syndrome.... now that sucks... a nation of Downies... Point is the Arberesh and Arvanites were always Greek.... period... they got the hell outta of hell.... when the hordes took over. I guess that extra chromosome we got it from Greeks. A nation of new comer Asians claiming to have given birth to European civilization. That's what I call irony.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Jul 12, 2009 20:37:11 GMT -5
Proves my point that most of your are retards...... there are coutless Greeks in Canada that identify themsleves with being Canadian... or even worst French.... these are the Greeks that have been here since the biginning of the 20 th century. The Arvanites and Arberesh were living for thousands of years in these lands and later on mixed with the incoming peoples around 1250..which that would be YOU the Albanians..after they Christianized you... and started to absorb the your bar bar language .... they felt their loyality belonged to you.... Ever heard of Ciril and Methodious... same thing happened to them..
Most of you are too stupid to understand that... eventually it will sink in..
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jul 12, 2009 20:39:56 GMT -5
Lol. I still dont understand where this idiot got 1250 from.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Jul 12, 2009 20:46:42 GMT -5
Find me stuff before that by 3rd party .... and not a mention here and there..My grand pappy was mentioned here and there too..
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jul 12, 2009 20:56:36 GMT -5
Whats third party? In Historical sources, there are primary (contemporary, non-modern) and secondary (modern, scholarly, based off of the primary to the biggest extent).
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Post by leshte on Jul 12, 2009 21:46:55 GMT -5
OK I'm gonna try real hard and see if I can put the incoherent thoughts of our Canadian Greek here together. For the sake of argument I'm gonna concentrate on the Arberesh. Here's what our Greek Highduke claims. The Arbereshe were first Greeks. Then somehow some people come where they live( even there's no documentation whatsoever that speaks of incoming people at the time the pseudo scholar claims). So I would not be wrong to assume that the Arbereshe being Greek (using this for the sake of argument), where far more advanced in every walk of life then the newcomers. (In the case of Greeks and Canada the opposite is true. Also Greeks are the newcomers in Canada not the other way around as in the case claimed by the Greek Einstein above). Yet for some stupid reason the Arberesh ditch all their advancements and all their culture and become Albanians. Scanderbeg dies, they immigrate to Italy; and they turn Greek; I am assuming this based on what the Greek genius has said so far. They stay Greek for some years and later for unknown reasons become Albanian again. They do not become Italian this time ( you know like the Greeks in Canada who become Candaian). For some mysterious reason they decide not to become Italian but become Albanian.
I thought Highduke was gone; it seems he has been here all along. Highduke has been Kanaris all the time and Kanaris has been Highduke all the time. Rex you know where to address your stuff now.
Here's the fact. Arberia ->Arberesh -> Arvanite. Scanderbeg dies and Arberia falls to the Otomans. The people of Arberia-> the Arberesh-> and the Arvanites immigrate towards Greece and Italy.
Think a little. Its good. Its never too late to learn how to think no matter how old you are.
P.S Free Macedonia from the Greeks. ;D
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