Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Jan 20, 2011 21:23:37 GMT -5
Does anybody know when the "vski"was introduced to the Macedonian surnames? I ask this because I know my family name used to end with "vic"(so, xxxxkovic) during the era of my grandparents, and I know many people also had "xxxxkov", just like the Bulgarians but, I can't find out when exactly people were forced to change to "vski".
When I look up Macedonian surnames from before WW2, nobody's ended with ski, so it happened not long after that I believe.
And also, who forced it upon the people? Was it an order from Belgrade? And what is the reasoning for choosing "vski"? If Belgrade wanted to brainwash the people into believing they were Macedonians, why choose such blatant Slavic surname endings?
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Post by kijgol on Jan 20, 2011 21:37:59 GMT -5
Slavic surname? Macedonia was part of YugoSLAVia. What kind of name did you expect? It was given to Makos to differentiate themselves from the other Slavic groups (namely Bulgarian and Serbian.)
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Post by terroreign on Jan 20, 2011 22:23:26 GMT -5
^kigjol is correct, -ovski names were close enough to Serbian and Bulgarian names that they would be adopted without much resistance, but different enough to foster a separate identity amongst the Fyromians.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 21, 2011 0:13:33 GMT -5
There are lots of Bulgarians whose names also end with -ski. For example Sofia's ex mayor Stefan Sofianski. But there are really lot of Bulgarians. So my guess is there used to be -ski ending in Macedonia. Most propably -ov, -ev, -ski are all Bulgarian endings.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Jan 21, 2011 0:49:10 GMT -5
^kigjol is correct, -ovski names were close enough to Serbian and Bulgarian names that they would be adopted without much resistance, but different enough to foster a separate identity amongst the Fyromians. -ovski is closer to Polish than to Serbian or Bulgarian. Just replace the v with a w, and you have Polish. But anyway, my point is, if the intention was to create a Macedonian identity (like some are claiming), why choose such a northern Slavic surname ending? Wouldn't they force the people to have Greek names instead? That way, the people would have a stronger urge to unify with and take back northern Greek (Macedonian) lands. If the intention was to brainwash the people to be Serbs, why not force everyone's surname to end with -v ic? If the intention was to create an entire new Slavic group, why call them Macedonians? (and yes, Macedonia did exist as a part of Jugoslavia, just like Serbia and Croatia did) None of this makes sense to me. |
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Jan 21, 2011 0:52:29 GMT -5
There are lots of Bulgarians whose names also end with -ski. For example Sofia's ex mayor Stefan Sofianski. But there are really lot of Bulgarians. So my guess is there used to be -ski ending in Macedonia. Most propably -ov, -ev, -ski are all Bulgarian endings. and -vski are different. There are lots of Russians and other northern Slavs who's surname ends with -ski, but very few with the v in front of the -ski. I would guess that the Bulgarians that have -ski as their surname, actually come from the north, not from Macedonia. |
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Post by ulf on Jan 21, 2011 1:15:12 GMT -5
Does anybody know when the "vski"was introduced to the Macedonian surnames? I ask this because I know my family name used to end with "vic"(so, xxxxkovic) during the era of my grandparents, and I know many people also had "xxxxkov", just like the Bulgarians but, I can't find out when exactly people were forced to change to "vski". When I look up Macedonian surnames from before WW2, nobody's ended with ski, so it happened not long after that I believe. And also, who forced it upon the people? Was it an order from Belgrade? And what is the reasoning for choosing "vski"? If Belgrade wanted to brainwash the people into believing they were Macedonians, why choose such blatant Slavic surname endings? That would be under communistic period, circa 1945-1950. I know many Serbs from Macedonia were force to resettle somewhere else because communistic party of Macedonia didn't let them choice. Either to leave to other parts of Yugoslavia or change lastname to -evski/ovski suffix |
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 21, 2011 3:34:28 GMT -5
^^^^^^^^^^^
AHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
So the supposed Serbification of Makedonia as claimed here by certain idiots (mainly tatar whores like Asen) was the complete opposite!!!
It all makes sense now...
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Post by rusebg on Jan 21, 2011 3:47:12 GMT -5
The change of the surnames started with the introduction of the new macedonian alphabet and literary language. The exact date is 07.06.1945. www.makedonskatribuna.com/MakEzik.pdfIt is interesting that some of the names there are mentioned with both ov/ev and ski ending. |
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Post by terroreign on Jan 21, 2011 4:09:14 GMT -5
^kigjol is correct, -ovski names were close enough to Serbian and Bulgarian names that they would be adopted without much resistance, but different enough to foster a separate identity amongst the Fyromians. -ovski is closer to Polish than to Serbian or Bulgarian. Just replace the v with a w, and you have Polish. But anyway, my point is, if the intention was to create a Macedonian identity (like some are claiming), why choose such a northern Slavic surname ending? Wouldn't they force the people to have Greek names instead? That way, the people would have a stronger urge to unify with and take back northern Greek (Macedonian) lands. If the intention was to brainwash the people to be Serbs, why not force everyone's surname to end with -v ic? If the intention was to create an entire new Slavic group, why call them Macedonians? (and yes, Macedonia did exist as a part of Jugoslavia, just like Serbia and Croatia did) None of this makes sense to me. Because Macedonia sounded more respectable than Vardar ;D |
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Jan 21, 2011 4:50:33 GMT -5
The change of the surnames started with the introduction of the new macedonian alphabet and literary language. The exact date is 07.06.1945. www.makedonskatribuna.com/MakEzik.pdfIt is interesting that some of the names there are mentioned with both ov/ev and ski ending. It doesn't really say anything about the names change, it's just a declaration of an official Macedonian alphabet. |
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Post by rusebg on Jan 21, 2011 5:15:44 GMT -5
There is no official date of accepting this suffix as far as I know. i just pointed out when it actually began because some of the names mentioned during this meeting have both endings and it shows that the confusion had already started.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 21, 2011 7:49:50 GMT -5
-ski and -vski are different. There are lots of Russians and other northern Slavs who's surname ends with -ski, but very few with the v in front of the -ski. Dostojevski, Cajkovski, i guess there are some of them... |
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Jan 21, 2011 8:06:38 GMT -5
Dostojevski, Cajkovski, i guess there are some of them... You're right. I don't know how common they are in Russia though. Still, I wonder why such a surname was chosen for me and my people. Maybe to differentiate us from both Serbs and Bulgarians. |
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 21, 2011 8:18:56 GMT -5
Still, I wonder why such a surname was chosen for me and my people. Maybe to differentiate us from both Serbs and Bulgarians. Maybe that was the "plan". |
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Post by rusebg on Jan 21, 2011 8:23:24 GMT -5
Yes, that was the plan. And the efforts were getting to such extremes that a macedonian professor, forgot his name, jokingly suggested that macedonians should cut their ears in order to be even more different than Bulgarians.
As for Russia - they have all kinds of surname endings - ov, ev, aev/oev (from muslims origin in general) ic, enko, chuk (the last two more typical for Ukrainians), in, ski, tski and god knows what else.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 21, 2011 8:56:24 GMT -5
Yes, that was the plan. And the efforts were getting to such extremes that a macedonian professor, forgot his name, jokingly suggested that macedonians should cut their ears in order to be even more different than Bulgarians. As for Russia - they have all kinds of surname endings - ov, ev, aev/oev (from muslims origin in general) ic, enko, chuk (the last two more typical for Ukrainians), in, ski, tski and god knows what else. However, our brother Nikola here says that his surname used to end in -ic, some years ago... So the whole thing was not so serb-friendly either? Does our brother RuseBG agree with that? |
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Jan 21, 2011 10:16:17 GMT -5
The official story behind the “ski” or “vski”, and yes both are the same, is that during the time of Yugoslavia, Belgrade was involved in a campaign of creating a new “Macedonian” ethnic identity. People were forced to adopt these name endings, and were told that it was “in the spirit of Yugoslavia”.
Nikola, learn your damn history already bro. Pick up some neutral books and read, the information is all there. First of all, Serbia did indeed try to make Macedono-Bulgarians into Serbs, these campaigns started from the late 1800’s and continued to about 1912. Some Macedono-Bulgarians succumbed to the pressure, however, on a large scale.. as a whole, the campaigns were a failure as people didn’t want to be Serbs. When Yugoslavia came around, these same assimilation type campaigns were still there except their main focus was de-Bulgarization of Macedonia and the creation of a new “Macedonian” ethnic group. Seriously though, you should probably read up on your own people because it really seems you’re at loss when it comes to your own history and background.
Bro, enough with these pseudo theories.. many Serbs on here tend to be pseudo historians. All these things we’re talking about are well documented in ACTUAL books. If you people bothered to read a little at least, you’ll find out how silly your posts sound.
The name endings of “ski” and “vski” were always present in Bulgarian and Macedonia (Vardar and the Aegean). The standard “ev” and “ov” endings were always much more common though. Actually, if you look at the name endings of “Macedonians” from the Aegean, you’ll notice that they mostly use “ev” and “ov” rather than “ski” or “vski”.. even today.
I know that there was at least one purposeful settlement of about 50,000 Serbs into Macedonia during Yugoslavia. I believe only 30,000 remained settled in Macedonia permanently and the other 20,000 returned back to Serbia later on.
It’s also interesting how out of the Yugoslavian secret police, or state police, or whatever you want to call it.. about 80% were concentrated in Macedonia, and the remaining 20% were spread throughout all of Yugoslavia. Hmm, I wonder why that was.
Maybe you should all read more, and actually learn the history of the region and its people before making up your own pseudo theories. You’ll find that your assumptions and personal conclusions are directly contradicted by published scholars and overall world opinion.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 21, 2011 10:38:38 GMT -5
I know that there was at least one purposeful settlement of about 50,000 Serbs into Macedonia during Yugoslavia. I believe only 30,000 remained settled in Macedonia permanently and the other 20,000 returned back to Serbia later on. It’s also interesting how out of the Yugoslavian secret police, or state police, or whatever you want to call it.. about 80% were concentrated in Macedonia, and the remaining 20% were spread throughout all of Yugoslavia. Hmm, I wonder why that was. Dude you are the definition of conspiracy-theory junkie. Is there any "real book" which could shed some light to this peculiar phenomenon, 80% of the secret police of Yugoslavia (whatever this 80% might mean, money, people, buildings, etc.... of course you do not specify what exactly) to be "connected" with Makedonia? We are all ears.. PS BTW the number of times you or Ioan have referred to the terms "world, "published" "scholars", etc.... is really amusing. More than once your "scholars" were proven to be clueless idiots with explicit agenda. |
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Jan 21, 2011 11:51:26 GMT -5
I base my knowledge on books, from a wide variety of authors. I don't make up my own assumptions, I'm not a historian. I simply read what is out there, and I read a lot.. from what I've seen, general world opinion (meaning practically all published sources) are a direct contradiction of the things you post.
80% of the human resources bro, is that simplified enough for you? The statement I made is referring to "police presence" (ie. people who are there to "enforce" the will of Belgrade).
I've posted many sources, and I will most probably be posting many more. However, as I've already made myself clear, your personal opinion is of no interest to me.. nor do I wish to change your views. Any human being with half a brain and the ability to read will be able to learn the history of Macedonia and its people by simply reading what was already published by many many many scholars/authors/travelers from many many many many different countries (including earlier Serbian sources). Plus, you and your retarded other half Pazar don't even read your own sources. You post quotes that are almost always out of context in an attempt to pollute the forums and confuse those who are "less" interested in the matter. But as I've already mentioned, all the facts and information is out there.. it ain't rocket science, however, in order to expand your brain capacity you do actually have to READ the sources.
Yes, they were clueless idiots who just happen to have been well educated and just so happen to agree on the matter. How is it that American, German, Turkish, Greek, Italian, British, French, Austrian, Russian, and even earlier Serbian sources.. how is it that they ALL agree on the matter? Would you care to explain that to me?
You believe in some idiotic, supposed, conspiracy theory against Serbs and Serbia.. but that's really because you've never set foot out of your retarded comfort zone. Like I said, pick up a book or two or ten.. READ them, read them FULLY, and you'll notice that you're views are NOT supported in academic circles.
PS: You ain't nothin but a clown.
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