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Post by toskaliku on Feb 12, 2011 15:51:00 GMT -5
My ethnic background is 6/8(3/4) Albanian, 1/8 Sinto & 1/8 Turk as many Albanians of Muslim background. I don't care about any ethnicity or religion, despite my kin cares a lot. In the movie The Big Lebowski there are a set of character that really stick out. They are a group of Germans who define themselves as Nihilists. Ironically enough, the idea that they are Nihilists becomes so important for them that ironically the idea is very twisted... in essence, their belief nothing comes to be defined as a sort of belief, an identity of sorts. They are so vested in the idea that they are Nihilists that they contradict the very ideas of such. This kind of reminds me of what you are trying to be. Everything about you reeks of "trying". You are trying your hardest to present yourself as something that is in essence nothing. Your "nothingness" (not having any association) is so trite and contrived that it has become a new identity. Im still not convinced that you are not a joke account of sorts. But if you are not, then your identification is no less pathetc than that of an ethnic one. And just so you know, we live in a world defined by ethnic associations. No matter how much you may resist, you belong to an ethnic group and that is not your choice. Its not a matter of free will. How much you associate is different. But you don't "choose" ethnicity as of yet... it's defined for you at birth. Maybe one day ethnicity will be abolished and the next new wave of identification will supersede. But that has not happened yet. We should believe you? Especially when Why? Albanian does not even remotely compare to Zoti's, who has lived outside of Albania for up to 20 years now. He lives in Tirana and yet his Albanian is about as broken as, well, mine.
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Why?
Membrum
I dunno!
Posts: 72
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Post by Why? on Feb 12, 2011 16:10:11 GMT -5
ToskalikuPo na lodhe, mos u bëj kalama! Ku e dallove ti që aftësia ime për të folur Shqip qenka e dobët? Tek ëndërrat e tua? Nuk janë të gjithë nacionalistë të trashë, në fakt ndodh tërësisht e kundërta, shumica e njerëzve janë të zgjuar edhe të hapur për dialog. Ti mendon se do vdesësh nëse 'ngel' pa etni, po të ishte ashtu, do ishe i vdekur tashmë, sepse etnitë nuk ekzistojnë! Ekziston vetëm budallallëku njerëzor, pra besimi se mundet të kesh një etni, që është thjesht mohim i të vërtetës edhe shfaqje e hapur e zhgënjimit të personave me etni si puna jote. Now write me in Albanian with a private message and explain me what means Nihilist?! I checked Wikipedia, but the article was very long and I got tired and didn't understood anything.
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Post by odel on Feb 12, 2011 16:37:27 GMT -5
An agnostic neither belives there is a god or that there is no god, it doesn't mean that he doesn't know if god exists as neither the atheist or the theist does. I think that was what you tried to say but that because of lacking English skills you can't express yourself that well, which is nothing to be ashamed of, am I correct? Also, one can be an agnostic-theist (leaning more on the theist side) or an agnostic-atheist (leaning more on the atheist side). Personally I'm an agnostic leaning more on the atheist side, therefore I'm an agnostic-atheist.
Nuk po shkruj në gjuhen Shqipe aq t'mirë, sidomos gjuhen letrare s'di as me fol as me shkru. Kur je tu fol për njerëz qe jan ngushtë me mendje Aadmin Emperor ësht prej njerëzit ma të ngushtë me mendje. Edhe jo veq qe mend i ka të ngushta ka edhe plotë emër tjer qe muj me dhan, dhe ky ështe pak si supremacist/racist ndaj Shqiptarev, për shembull ka përdorur fjal si "Siptar" qe ësht sharje racist qe perdoren Serbet kunder Shqiptarët.
I agree with Toskali, you're trying to be "ethnicityless" and this in itself just makes another identity for you, you identify with being "ethnicityless"
And you're part Sinti? I've never heard of that branch of Romani's in Albania or in the Balkans even. However, if you really are this is for you:
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Post by toskaliku on Feb 12, 2011 16:39:33 GMT -5
ToskalikuPo na lodhe, mos u bëj kalama! Ku e dallove ti që aftësia ime për të folur Shqip qenka e dobët? Tek ëndërrat e tua? Nuk janë të gjithë nacionalistë të trashë, në fakt ndodh tërësisht e kundërta, shumica e njerëzve janë të zgjuar edhe të hapur për dialog. Ti mendon se do vdesësh nëse 'ngel' pa etni, po të ishte ashtu, do ishe i vdekur tashmë, sepse etnitë nuk ekzistojnë! Ekziston vetëm budallallëku njerëzor, pra besimi se mundet të kesh një etni, që është thjesht mohim i të vërtetës edhe shfaqje e hapur e zhgënjimit të personave me etni si puna jote. Now write me in Albanian with a private message and explain me what means Nihilist?! I checked Wikipedia, but the article was very long and I got tired and didn't understood anything. Ti as nuk din tema dhe idea filosofike te thjesht edhe provon tna tregosh ne se cfar eksiston dhe seksiston?
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Why?
Membrum
I dunno!
Posts: 72
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Post by Why? on Feb 12, 2011 16:51:45 GMT -5
@odel To me the word "Gypsy" or "Roma" are insults or misnames, just "Sinti" is not an insult. "Shiptar" e quajnë veten shqiptarët e Kosovës, sidomos ata të Preshevës, pra nuk është fyerje, thjesht fjalë krahinore. ToskalikuYou're a child.
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Post by odel on Feb 12, 2011 17:06:03 GMT -5
What? Gypsy is seen as insulting but Roma is not, Roma is the word most Romani people prefer to be reffered as, it's the politically correct word, Sinti is a branch of the Romani peoples.
Shqiptar e quajnë qjithë Shqiptarët e balkanit, jo vetem ata Kosovës edhe "sidomos" jo vetem ata të Preshevës, mos fol palidhje. Sharje është sepse Serbet përdorin si fjalë fyerje. Fjala "nigger" për shembull e ka etimologien "zi" prej latinishtes, domëthëne qe fjala "nigger" nuk është fjalë negative apo këtë fjalë e kan përdor si fjalë offenduese edhe tani e kan bërë fjalë raciste. Why are the two words "Roma" and "Gypsy" offensive while "Siptar" is not?
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Why?
Membrum
I dunno!
Posts: 72
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Post by Why? on Feb 12, 2011 17:17:34 GMT -5
@odel Unë njoh mjaft preshevarë, edhe ti duket sikur nuk i njeh. Ata përdorin fjalën "Ship" në vend të "Shqip" ose "Shçip" ose "Shqyp". Ata përdorin fjalën "shiptar" në vend të "shqiptar" ose "shçiptar" ose "shqyptar". Nuk ka fyerje këtu! Edhe nuk ka lidhje fare me fjalën N|GGER(Has nothing to do with this word). About the different words in question: ~Roma is a misname, it derives from Rum milet, "Orthodox people" or "Greek people" or whatever is related to the word Rum/Romans(Byzantines) and Rumelia. ~Gypsy is a pejorative derived from the misname Egyptian. ~Egyptian is a misname. ~Ashkali derives from Ashkalon, again a misname. ~While "Sinti" describes the origin of these people. These people have origins from the areas of modern India & Pakistan, nobody knows for sure from which exact area. One of the earliest islamized areas in the region was "Sindh(Sind)" and "Sindhi(Sindi)" was called the people there. Because the Sinti entered in Europe though the Byzantine Empire, the name has been Hellenized, so "Sindhi" become "Sint(o)i" in plural, while in singular masculine "Sinto(s)" and feminine "Sintis(s)a". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinti
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Post by terroreign on Feb 12, 2011 17:31:31 GMT -5
For someone who rejects ethnicity so vehemently, you sure are interested about it....
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Post by odel on Feb 12, 2011 17:47:32 GMT -5
I'm a Kosovar myself and my grandmother on my mother's side is a Preshevar, I think I know them more than you do. "Shqiptar" is used by Albanians from Macedonia and Albania too. I won't discuss this more as it's quite obvious that there won't be any outcome worthwhile contra my time spent discussing this. About the different words in question: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Romani_peopleYou're wrong and this link explains the actual etymologies of everything except for Ashkalon (Wth is Ashkalon?) The Sinti are a sub-group of the Romani people, the Taters in Norway are Romani's but not Sinti's, however Sinti's are Romani's just like the Taters.
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Post by laughingriever on Feb 12, 2011 19:56:41 GMT -5
... explain me what means Nihilist?! ... Nihilism. It's all nothing and a man is nothing, too.
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Post by la3ar on Feb 12, 2011 20:05:54 GMT -5
^ to continue ... Nihilist is the philosophical belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Feb 12, 2011 20:34:35 GMT -5
Nihilist is the philosophical belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated
Perhaps because people are intellectually limited (on top of emotions also limiting them) to have the capacity to truly know and therefore effectively communicate.
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Post by la3ar on Feb 12, 2011 20:43:47 GMT -5
Very possible, but emotions get involved when one has encountered a situation or a cause that is factual.
Intellectual limitation has to do with ones understanding of concepts, ideas, theories and/or facts.
Would you consider Socrates intellectually limited? – “I know that I know nothing”
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Feb 12, 2011 20:51:18 GMT -5
Would you consider Socrates intellectually limited? – “I know that I know nothing” I would consider him as being aware of his intellectual limitations and therefore one extremely rare human specimen to truly acknowledge it and proceed further from there. Emotions to me get involved when we get tested on any level by life itself which is almost constantly and they cloud our view.
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Post by toskaliku on Feb 12, 2011 20:57:59 GMT -5
Albanian novelist Sterjo Spasse gave the idea of Nihilism: "A world of nothing, from nothing for nothing, is based around the essence of nothing." It was written in the book "Pse?" (Why?) which is, I believe, where the account name above comes from (ironically this "member" doesnt even know the basic idea of Nihilism):
Nihilism is born out of the idea that everything is symbolic... and if things in this world are all symbolic then they truly cannot exist. "Morality" cannot exist because it is artificially created (whether by religion, community etc. etc.). Even physical objects are really ideas and symbols. When we define something we don't define the object but rather the symbol of the object. Thus, in a world deconstructed, where nothing is definite and no value intrinsic then nothing can truly exist. Nihilism is the belief, thus, that nothing truly IS.
It has nothing to do with emotion, as some of our mentally limited members here think. Although the end result of such a philosophy has caused tremendous emotional distress otherwise coined in German Weltschmerz (world pain). Among people suffering from such a "disease" was Albanian Migjeni and Spasse, and others such as Einstein.
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Post by la3ar on Feb 12, 2011 20:59:55 GMT -5
Would you consider Socrates intellectually limited? – “I know that I know nothing” I would consider him as being aware of his intellectual limitations and therefore one extremely rare human specimen to truly acknowledge it and proceed further from there. Emotions to me get involved when we get tested on any level by life itself which is almost constantly and they cloud our view. I agree completely. The awareness of ones CURRENT “limitations” is extremely important, and the first step to push that limitation further and beyond. I believe human beings are limitless, especially when it comes to intellectuality. “Emotions to me get involved when we get tested on any level by life itself which is almost constantly and they cloud our view. “ - Emperor AAdmin Do you believe there’s both negative and positive emotions?
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Feb 12, 2011 21:05:19 GMT -5
1st I write: (not as a comment to nihilism) Perhaps because people are intellectually limited (on top of emotions also limiting them) to have the capacity to truly know and therefore effectively communicate.
Then the emotional one writes: When we define something we don't define the object but rather the symbol of the object.
Why? Because of our intellectual inability to actually define the object for what it is but for what (primarily our emotions which are easily 80% of our essence) we 'perceive' it to be and hence the symbolism. Think of how much emphasis humans give to first impression.
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Post by la3ar on Feb 12, 2011 21:06:46 GMT -5
Can you provide a clear example of a situation where Logic vs. Emotion can become turbulant ? out of sheer curiosty. I am enjoying this discusion, btw ...
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Feb 12, 2011 21:09:53 GMT -5
I believe human beings are limitless, especially when it comes to intellectuality. I highly contest this, in fact it seems that we are little more then a more advanced talking variant of a chimp, our closest genetic cousin in animal world. Most are unable to produce anything genuine on their own. Do you believe there’s both negative and positive emotions? Of course, although negative ones are far more powerful it seems and much more frequent (hence why I advocate emotional self-control) in a similar sense that it takes a split second to destroy then it does to create.
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Post by toskaliku on Feb 12, 2011 21:13:33 GMT -5
End this obsession with the "emotion" already. Its completely cluttered your already distorted mind.
You clearly don't understand the philosophical idea of a symbol. Yes, all symbols have some emotional/psychological association but our inability to define the object is because an object doesn't exist until it is defined. It is the definition that gives it essence. The reason being is that we are a communicative species. We have symbols because we can talk to eachother. That is why one philosopher once said "Even if lions could talk, we would not understand them". Thus man has created the symbolic in order to speak. Without symbolism me and you could not type to eachother now.
But enough, Ill wait for Anittas to have a decent convo about this stuff.
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