elemag
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Post by elemag on Sept 9, 2011 5:36:25 GMT -5
The 9th and 10th century before the fall of the First Bulgarian Empire. Later in the 13 th under the rule of Ivan Asen II. Is it enough? I must tell you this - for such a noisy and obnoxious person you are enormously ignorant. If I were you, I would keep a lower profile because you know nothing and fill your posts with huge amount of useless dung.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 9, 2011 5:52:46 GMT -5
The 9th and 10th century before the fall of the First Bulgarian Empire. Later in the 13 th under the rule of Ivan Asen II. Is it enough? no unless you provide sources. I am from there and this is the first time i hear such a theory (and believe me, i have done a *LOT* of research on the slavic presence/invasions/conquest/settlements in Epiros). i dont say this did not happen, i just need credentials.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Sept 9, 2011 9:28:06 GMT -5
This is not a teory but well known and undisputed facts. Are we supposed to provide you with links to everything we say which is not disputed by the scholars? Its like when I say that the earth is round I have to provide you a link? Or when I say that 2 and 2 are 4 - again a link for you? Sorry but then you are obviouslly not well read to dispute with us. We can not lecture you basic facts (that you present as "teory"). Hell google Epirus and Bulgarian rule and you ll find enough results that we ruled Epirus earlier and much much longer than the Serbs. Actually the "Serbian rule" is quite debatable - 20 years are hardly a rule that is worth mentioning. Thus every slavic toponym in Epirus should be regarded as Bulgarian because Serbs never lived or settled there - in this such short period.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Sept 9, 2011 9:32:38 GMT -5
Actually provide us with a link that the Bulgarians never ruled Epirus - just for the laugh.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 9, 2011 10:58:08 GMT -5
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 9, 2011 10:58:47 GMT -5
This is not a teory but well known and undisputed facts. how is it known when it never happened you dumpfu ck?
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 9, 2011 11:00:45 GMT -5
its nearly 30 you fuc king moron, in contrast to the big fat ZERO bulgarian equivalent. ;D
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Sept 9, 2011 11:50:00 GMT -5
First, this article discusses just a period in the Bulgarian rule in the time of Ivan Assen II and doesnt discuss the Bulgarian rule in 9 or 10 century. So lets see your article: "In 1230 Theodore broke the truce with Bulgaria, hoping to remove Ivan Asen II, who had held him back from attacking Constantinople. In the battle of Klokotnitsa (near Haskovo in Bulgaria) the Bulgarian emperor defeated, captured, and later blinded Theodore. His brother Manuel Komnenos Doukas took power in Thessalonica, while their nephew Michael II Komnenos Doukas took over Epirus." So lets see wiki about Michael II Komnenos Doukas: "Michael was an illegitimate son of Michael I Komnenos Doukas of Epirus and had gone into exile after his father's murder in 1215. After the defeat and capture of his uncle Theodore Komnenos Doukas by Ivan Asen II of Bulgaria at the Battle of Klokotnitsa he returned to Epirus and became the ruler of the region. It is not entirely clear whether he recognized the supreme authority of his uncle Manuel Komnenos Doukas of Thessalonica or of Ivan Asen II of Bulgaria" So lets see wiki about Manuel Komnenos Doukas of Thessalonica. "After his brother's defeat and capture by the Bulgarians at the Battle of Klokotnitsa in 1230, Manuel was allowed by Ivan Asen II to rule in Thessalonica and its environs with the title of despotes." Conclusion: Ioan Assen II ruled Epirus either through his vassal Michael II Komnenos Doukas or throgh Manuel Komnenos Doukas of Thessalonica, if Michael II Komnenos Doukas was his vassal. Now go cry to Novi.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Sept 9, 2011 11:53:48 GMT -5
The rule of Bulgarian vassal or vassal of the Bulgarian vassal Manuel Komnenos Doukas of Thessalonica - Michael II Komnenos Doukas lasted from 1230 till 1266 - which is longer than the serbian rule and that is just a brief period of bg rule.
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Post by Anittas on Sept 9, 2011 12:07:02 GMT -5
The Asens were not Bulgarian, so Bulgaria ruled over nothing.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Sept 9, 2011 12:14:39 GMT -5
Show me an evidence that Ioan Assen was not Bulgarian. He personally.
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Post by Anittas on Sept 9, 2011 12:17:12 GMT -5
"An evidence"?
"He personally"?
Sources have been posted many times before. I think one such source was posted again by AofG in another thread. You know which sources I'm talking about.
PS. The Bulgarian identity is a fraud.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Sept 9, 2011 12:22:59 GMT -5
Not sources about Kaloyan where the Vlahs (which are different from the Romanians) indeed are mentioned as one of the people that were ruled by him and also he was called ruler of Bulgaria and Vlahia. This is not true about Ioan Assen.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Sept 9, 2011 12:50:20 GMT -5
Not quite. The Bulgarian identity, unlike the Romanian one, takes into consideration all ethnic groups that have contributed to its development.
Romania's identity is based on a lack of facts and a strong political desire to make one thing appear as another.
Your history was invented by your own government in the 1800's, while Bulgarian history evolved naturally as it has been recorded by non-Bulgarian sources throughout the centuries.
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Post by Anittas on Sept 9, 2011 12:54:30 GMT -5
The Bulgarian identity is a fraud. Not even to this day can you agree on what you are.
Our history and our identity has a continuity since times immemorial. We are mentioned as far as Gotland by the Vikings; and also by Arabs and Italians.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Sept 9, 2011 13:09:51 GMT -5
The Bulgarian identity is a fraud. Not even to this day can you agree on what you are. Our history and our identity has a continuity since times immemorial. We are mentioned as far as Gotland by the Vikings; and also by Arabs and Italians. The reality: the Romanians think they know what they are, because they want to be it: Romanized Dacians. 10-13 centuries are overlooked and we must believe they are the perfect cross between Dacians and Romans. We, Bulgarians, know what we are because we do not have empty hole in our history for over 10 centuries: on the contrary: eventhough most of the Bulgarian letters and literature are destroyed and eventhough most sources about our history are foreign we mattered enough because almost every year of Bulgaria's existence was described. Thus we know that our ethnicity is mixed and that we are a nationality: result of a mix of Bulgars and Slavs. The Thracian contribution is supposed, but highly possible because of secondary/circumstantial evidence like the customs.
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Post by Anittas on Sept 9, 2011 13:12:12 GMT -5
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Sept 9, 2011 13:19:08 GMT -5
yes, because our history is RECORDED unlike Romanian one. To put it mildly: no one knew how you miraculously fell down from the sky in 10 century. Thats why I guess we will never know what and who you really are. Just assumption what you are, but never sure.
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Post by Anittas on Sept 9, 2011 13:26:19 GMT -5
One thing is for sure: we're not Mongols, unlike you.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Sept 9, 2011 13:42:53 GMT -5
Nothing is sure with the Romanians: you even had a turkic kingdome Kumania which you choose to ignore, because you dont want to be mongol (you call us mongol because you are obviouslly influenced by the old fashioned turkic theory of the origin of the Bulgars). A Bulgarian saying comes to mind: a thief shouts "Catch the thief". And again because you are sure that you are not mongol you choose to go back in time to the shortlived Roman rule over your teritory: because this is an invador you are proud of.
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