MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Jul 9, 2009 15:58:54 GMT -5
Yes. We came.. and all your towns are belong to us! Either way, we're here, and now we're part of the Balkans, and there is not a damn thing anyone can do about it. BTW, the "faggot" remark is a little uncalled for. Some people on this forum will take it as a big insult. I shall edit it, and this is the last warning. No bullshit.
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Post by srbobran on Jul 9, 2009 17:50:14 GMT -5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y DNA_haplogroups_by_ethnic_groups And by the way, don't anyone give that "its wikipedia its unreliable" crap. Each statistic given has been accurately sourced to a reputable, Westen, genetic research organization.
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Post by terroreign on Jul 9, 2009 18:09:33 GMT -5
Yes, Croats are Iranian, but who cares? We're all still Balkanians
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Post by Username on Jul 9, 2009 20:11:45 GMT -5
E1b1b, which seems to be the most common haplogroup among Albanians is also common among Algerians, Egyptians, Morrocans, Egyptians, Cypriots, the Roma, and Somalis (all 50% among these groups, some 80%+)... Very European of you Albanians
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Jul 9, 2009 20:17:44 GMT -5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y DNA_haplogroups_by_ethnic_groups And by the way, don't anyone give that "its wikipedia its unreliable" crap. Each statistic given has been accurately sourced to a reputable, Westen, genetic research organization. Can someone explain to me why they don't add up to 100%? Siptari (105.5%) R1b - 17.6 R1a - 9.8 I - 23.6 E1b1b - 27.0 E1b1a - 0 J - 27.5 G - 2 N - 0 T - 0 L - 0 Hrvati (MAINLAND) (105.7%) R1b - 15.7 R1a - 34.3 I - 38.1 E1b1b - 8.8 E1b1a - 0 J - 8.8 G - 0 N - 0 T - 0 L - 0 Srbi (81.4%) R1b - 10.6 R1a - 15.9 I - 29.2 E1b1b - 20.4 E1b1a - 0 J - 5.3 G - 0 N - 0 T - 0 L - 0 Bosnians (Serbs, Croats & Bosniaks) (78.1%) R1b - 1.4 R1a - 24.6 I - 42.0 E1b1b - 10.1 E1b1a - 0 J - 0 G - 0 N - 0 T - 0 L - 0 Slovenians (110.9%) R1b - 22.9 R1a - 37.1 I - 38.2 E1b1b - 7.0 E1b1a - 0 J - 5.7 G - 0 N - 0 T - 0 L - 0 FYROM (69.8%) R1b - 5.1 R1a - 15.2 I - 19.1 E1b1b - 24.1 E1b1a - 0 J - 6.3 G - 0 N - 0 T - 0 L - 0 Bulgarians (52.4%) R1b - 17.0 R1a - 14.7 I - 0 E1b1b - 20.7 E1b1a - 0 J - 0 G - 0 N - 0 T - 0 L - 0
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Post by Username on Jul 9, 2009 20:31:00 GMT -5
They don't add up to 100% because not all haplogroups were tested; just the most common ones...
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Jul 9, 2009 20:36:53 GMT -5
I would have gathered that though how then are Albanians, Croatians & Slovenian's above 100%?
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Jul 9, 2009 21:06:44 GMT -5
Ko to mi i koje je to vase drustvo? Valjda je vaše Srpsko, a naše Bošnjačko. Ajde?! Otkad si ti postao strucnjak za srpsko (srpsko malo slovo a i bosnjacko) drustvo? Koliko Srba poznajes milion, dva, tri...........svih desetak miliona?
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Post by Username on Jul 9, 2009 21:38:36 GMT -5
I would have gathered that though how then are Albanians, Croatians & Slovenian's above 100%? The sources are different for each haplogroup. They're only statistics - a sample of about 100 people for each experiment..
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Jul 10, 2009 2:30:30 GMT -5
Genetic dont dismiss that you pretend. R1a1-M17 is high among south slavs ( particularly Serbs, over 30%) Here is place where lived ancient serboi and this haplogroup is very high among them: Khojant (Tajakistan) = 67% (R1a1-M17) Ishkashim (Afganistan) = 68% (R1a1-M17) Southeast Iranic/Pamiri = 68% (R1a1-M17) this haplogroup among south europeans (Spanish, Portugals, Italian, Basques, Albanians is totally inexistence, near 1%) First of all, my research says 15% of Serbs are R1a... 9% in Albania.. South Slavs, unlike other Slavs, have much smaller proportions of this haplogroup.. And umm.. Czechs for example are about 40% M17... and lots of other Eastern Europeans fit into that haplogroup as well.. R1a is a widespread haplogroup, spreading from Europe to Asia.. Are Czechs suddenly Iranian as well? And you do know that all European peoples came from the Middle East right? And before that Africa, right? At least when you compare Serbs to Albanians, more Serbs have been in Europe longer than Albanians.. who was in the Balkans first, I don't know though. The majority of Albanians (50%+) are latecomers to Europe, and don't belong to an original European haplogroup. If you want to compare it to other South Slavs like Croatians; 90%+ of them fit into an original European haplogroup.. The most common haplogroup among South Slavs is I.. found in Sardinians (Italy), Swedes, Norwegans, Danes, and North Germans. I have another study which R1a of serbs show 30%. 1) Homeland of R1a considerated Iran and India dude, and this haplogroup graduality migrated into Europe. 2) about I...among south slavs is not present haplogroup I but I2a-P37...and according TMCRA have considered very young 3000 years old...and have theory this sub-haplogroup found in Central Europe after invasion of R1a. 3) About E3b-V13 is considerated Mesolitich (Battaglia 2008) and last 13.000 years lived in Balcan...so compare to I2 (which lived cental europe) is 10.000 years more oldest. 4) That's is fact in Balcan and South Europe native were only E-V13, R1b-M173 and J2e-M102...which are high among native south Europeans but not among south or cental slavs.
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Post by Username on Jul 10, 2009 2:59:55 GMT -5
1) My source puts Serbia's R1a @ 15%. Croatia's is higher at 29%. 2) Yes, haplogroup I is present in high frequencies in South Slavs... I2a is a subgroup of haplogroup I like you said, most common in Bosnia, Croatia and Sardinia (Italy). 2) Yes, that's one theory as to where R1a developed. But who cares? All the haplogroups in Europe today are either from the Middle East or have ancestors in the Middle East (e.g. Haplogroup R is from Central/South Asia; its descendents are R1a and R1b).. No one in Europe is indigenous to Europe. We all came from Africa.. then traveled to the Middle East, and finally settled in Europe. R1a has been in Europe a lot lot longer than E1b1b... Haplogroup I (the most common among South Slavs) has been around a lot longer than E1b1b too. 4) R1b is not common among other Balkanites. No one in the region has frequencies of R1b above 15%, which is normal for other Eastern Europeans. J2 and E1b1 (make up the majority of Albania) are later immigrants to Europe than R1a and I. 5) Anyways, my whole point is that the South Slavs arrived in Europe before Albanians did... and that the Croats of today are not of Iranian origin like people here are saying (that's a fringe theory pushed through propaganda).. And really, looking at the haplogroup composition of the countries in the region, you can pretty much conclude that what I say is true.
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Post by coke&broke on Jul 10, 2009 3:08:05 GMT -5
E1b1b, which seems to be the most common haplogroup among Albanians is also common among Algerians, Egyptians, Morrocans, Egyptians, Cypriots, the Roma, and Somalis (all 50% among these groups, some 80%+)... Very European of you Albanians E-V13 is the EUROPEAN subclade of e1b1b, and thus is not the same as the other subclades found outside Europe. One theory suggests that these people migrated from the Middle East during the Neolithic period. Read the damn article again. It is also found in far flung places like the UK which had a ROMAN presence, indicated that people with the E-V13 (Thats the European one) subclade where enlisted as Roman soldiers. Get that through your thick skull. And you mentioned the haplotype J being "European", again this is common amongst North Europeans but very sparse amongst people in Greece....are they newcomers to Europe too even with their rich and established history? The stupidity amongst some people in here is ridiculous.
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Post by coke&broke on Jul 10, 2009 3:12:38 GMT -5
1) My source puts Serbia's R1a @ 15%. Croatia's is higher at 29%. 2) Yes, haplogroup I is present in high frequencies in South Slavs... I2a is a subgroup of haplogroup I like you said, most common in Bosnia, Croatia and Sardinia (Italy). 2) Yes, that's one theory as to where R1a developed. But who cares? All the haplogroups in Europe today are either from the Middle East or have ancestors in the Middle East (e.g. Haplogroup R is from Central/South Asia; its descendents are R1a and R1b).. No one in Europe is indigenous to Europe. We all came from Africa.. then traveled to the Middle East, and finally settled in Europe. R1a has been in Europe a lot lot longer than E1b1b... Haplogroup I (the most common among South Slavs) has been around a lot longer than E1b1b too. 4) R1b is not common among other Balkanites. No one in the region has frequencies of R1b above 15%, which is normal for other Eastern Europeans. J2 and E1b1 (make up the majority of Albania) are later immigrants to Europe than R1a and I. 5) Anyways, my whole point is that the South Slavs arrived in Europe before Albanians did... and that the Croats of today are not of Iranian origin like people here are saying (that's a fringe theory pushed through propaganda).. And really, looking at the haplogroup composition of the countries in the region, you can pretty much conclude that what I say is true. When you say Europe do you mean the Slavs came to the Carpathian mountains before Albanians? Because it sure as hell isn't the Balkans. And according to your logic Greeks also arrived after the Slavs into Europe.
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Post by Username on Jul 10, 2009 3:15:35 GMT -5
1) My source puts Serbia's R1a @ 15%. Croatia's is higher at 29%. 2) Yes, haplogroup I is present in high frequencies in South Slavs... I2a is a subgroup of haplogroup I like you said, most common in Bosnia, Croatia and Sardinia (Italy). 2) Yes, that's one theory as to where R1a developed. But who cares? All the haplogroups in Europe today are either from the Middle East or have ancestors in the Middle East (e.g. Haplogroup R is from Central/South Asia; its descendents are R1a and R1b).. No one in Europe is indigenous to Europe. We all came from Africa.. then traveled to the Middle East, and finally settled in Europe. R1a has been in Europe a lot lot longer than E1b1b... Haplogroup I (the most common among South Slavs) has been around a lot longer than E1b1b too. 4) R1b is not common among other Balkanites. No one in the region has frequencies of R1b above 15%, which is normal for other Eastern Europeans. J2 and E1b1 (make up the majority of Albania) are later immigrants to Europe than R1a and I. 5) Anyways, my whole point is that the South Slavs arrived in Europe before Albanians did... and that the Croats of today are not of Iranian origin like people here are saying (that's a fringe theory pushed through propaganda).. And really, looking at the haplogroup composition of the countries in the region, you can pretty much conclude that what I say is true. When you say Europe do you mean the Slavs came to the Carpathian mountains before Albanians? Because it sure as hell isn't the Balkans. I don't know who came to the Balkans first. I'm just arguing about who arrived in Europe first. Again, Slavs is an ethnolinguistic term. So you have to be more specific than that.. I'm going to assume you're talking about South Slavs.. All I can say is that about 45% of Greece are descendants of the first Europeans.. whereas that number for Croats is about 90%, and for Serbs 60%... So yes, in that sense, South Slavs arrived in Europe before the Greeks.. I don't know why that's so hard to believe.. We are talking tens of thousands of years ago.. long before Greek civilization..
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Post by coke&broke on Jul 10, 2009 3:27:32 GMT -5
When you say Europe do you mean the Slavs came to the Carpathian mountains before Albanians? Because it sure as hell isn't the Balkans. I don't know who came to the Balkans first. I'm just arguing about who arrived in Europe first. Only Slavs seem to not accept the true answer to that question. After being schooled for a few years on here by Dijedon, Toskali, Xpferens, Shpata etc... you guys are still grasping at straws.
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Post by Username on Jul 10, 2009 3:30:37 GMT -5
I don't know who came to the Balkans first. I'm just arguing about who arrived in Europe first. Only Slavs seem to not accept the true answer to that question. After being schooled for a few years on here by Dijedon, Toskali, Xpferens, Shpata etc... you guys are still grasping at straws. Dude, I was born and raised in Canada... It's not like I was taught this stuff or something.. and I've never done any research on it. But go ahead, enlighten me..
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Post by coke&broke on Jul 10, 2009 3:38:15 GMT -5
When you say Europe do you mean the Slavs came to the Carpathian mountains before Albanians? Because it sure as hell isn't the Balkans. I don't know who came to the Balkans first. I'm just arguing about who arrived in Europe first. Again, Slavs is an ethnolinguistic term. So you have to be more specific than that.. I'm going to assume you're talking about South Slavs.. All I can say is that about 45% of Greece are descendants of the first Europeans.. whereas that number for Croats is about 90%, and for Serbs 60%... So yes, in that sense, South Slavs arrived in Europe before the Greeks.. I don't know why that's so hard to believe.. We are talking tens of thousands of years ago.. long before Greek civilization.. Dude, do you honestly know what the hell you are talking about? Or just pulling things out of your ass? I admit I don't know much about genetics, but at least I'm bringing forth sources to the table, whereas you're making assumptions and amateur conclusions based on your poor knowledge of the topic. Even human geneticists do not have a scientific consensus on many of the issues pertaining to human genetics as it is a relatively new field of study... and here you are making hasty suppositions...
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Post by Username on Jul 10, 2009 3:45:02 GMT -5
I don't know who came to the Balkans first. I'm just arguing about who arrived in Europe first. Again, Slavs is an ethnolinguistic term. So you have to be more specific than that.. I'm going to assume you're talking about South Slavs.. All I can say is that about 45% of Greece are descendants of the first Europeans.. whereas that number for Croats is about 90%, and for Serbs 60%... So yes, in that sense, South Slavs arrived in Europe before the Greeks.. I don't know why that's so hard to believe.. We are talking tens of thousands of years ago.. long before Greek civilization.. Dude, do you honestly know what the hell you are talking about? Or just pulling things out of your ass? I admit I don't know much about genetics, but at least I'm bringing forth sources to the table, whereas you're making assumptions and amateur conclusions based on your poor knowledge of the topic. Even human geneticists do not have a scientific consensus on many of the issues pertaining to human genetics as it is a relatively new field of study... and here you are making hasty suppositions... I'm not making it up lol! www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtmlThere you go... You can check the sources out if you wish.. It should be pretty clear. Edit: and that's all I can give you.. the rest of the research I did is on my school's library.. unless you're a student there, you can't access the online content (academic journals and textbooks) And it's 3 am here, so I'm off.. night.
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Post by fazlinho on Jul 10, 2009 4:50:04 GMT -5
Valjda je vaše Srpsko, a naše Bošnjačko. Ajde?! Otkad si ti postao strucnjak za srpsko (srpsko malo slovo a i bosnjacko) drustvo? Koliko Srba poznajes milion, dva, tri...........svih desetak miliona? Radi toga sam i počeo rečenicu sa "možda" a zasnovao sam se na njegove riječi. Hvala na ispravci.
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Post by insomniac on Jul 11, 2009 1:08:21 GMT -5
Dude, I was born and raised in Canada... It's not like I was taught this stuff or something.. and I've never done any research on it. But go ahead, enlighten me.. Shpata, the Albanian forumer of the old forums explains particularly this issue your raise: now the historical conclusions that can be made from the data avaliable. from this article.... vetinari.sitesled.com/slavic.pdf
bosnians are grouped seperate from herzegovanians. so that means bosnians= northern 2/3 of bosnia. in any case what is evident from this study is that slavic R1a is quite heavy among northern serbs(vojvodina), croatian mainland and northern half of bosnia. these regions are almost identical to northern slavs. than theres the mixed zone such as dalmatia, herzegovania and central serbia. these regions appear a compromise between slavic invaders and pre-slavic balkan populations. it is in montengro and northern albania and kosovo where slavic impact is almost zero, slavo macs and south albania and greek macedonia is a mixed zone again with some areas more slavic and some more on on the native side.
also form the this articles, haplogroup I1b was common among illyrians of the dinaric mountains(and to a smaller scale illyrians of albania too). in any case, illyrians on the dinaric mountains dont seem to have been too different from the original northern slavs to begin with. both share similar y-haplogou markers(and almost identical mtDNA). the only diffrence might have been that illyrians of dinaric chains prior to the slavic invasions would had a larger ratio of I1b and smaller R1a. the slavic invasion only closed this gap.
while haplogroup E3b seems to dominated along river valleys near danube(danube-vardar-morava) area. E3b decend from neolithic farmers and members from haplogroup J were involved in this expansion. ancient balkanians with high frequency of neolithic markers were most likely dacians, thracians and eastern illyrians like dardani. the neolithic markers are high among albanians, greeks, bulgars, and romanians. with kosovo albs it reaches some really big peaks, most likely due to genetic drift. serbs also have quite a large dose of this due to the assimilation of by the slavs of local balkanians. conclusion is, the neolithic markers dominated east of the dinaric chains. these guys are the ones that spread agriculture around, expanding through danube river. serbia has lots of archeological evidence of their civilisation. now indo-europeans come and assimilate many of this people. illyrians assimilate mostly hunter+gatherer markers on the dinaric chains, and neolithic markers in regions adjacent to danube river. same thing with greece, indo-european civilisation vs old neolithic pelasgians: even their mythology shows this, the titans vs indo-euro gods. two different religious beliefs.
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