bato2
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Art Changed The World
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Post by bato2 on May 15, 2010 3:49:44 GMT -5
People do everything for some fame and some media atention The guy is just a moron who in name of art throw gasoline into the fire. What he was waiting for? applause and flowers? After the older events in Denmark every one knows the reaction from the other side. When you know a part of your society are uncivilized barbarians is no need to provoke them.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 15, 2010 3:56:17 GMT -5
Freedom of speech allows you to state tabboos so go ahead, but depicting millions of peoples prophet as a dog? freedom of speech or disrespect?
I'm sorry I just cannot see what you mean? I critize islam too, I critisize many things but never in an insulting manner, and If i disagree with something i dont try to insult it. I point out what I find wrong about it.
Lord Russell once stated: The problem, like all those with which we are concerned, is one of balance; too little liberty brings stagnation, and too much brings chaos
Liberty = freedom of speech.
Balance = the respect factor.
Get this part right and there isnt any problem.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 15, 2010 3:57:43 GMT -5
Bato just restated what I have been saying all along, If you insult a group of people who you know will react badly then take the consequences.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on May 15, 2010 5:09:57 GMT -5
Desire, what the Swede do was exercising his freedom of speech. Lots of wars have been fought for gaining this right in Europe and some 3rd world muslims from the arabian dessert will not be the reason for the dissapearance of this right.
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Post by logjiktek on May 15, 2010 6:01:47 GMT -5
I don't understand why they should have to walk on eggshells when it come to insulting Islam. If they do it to every other faith, why is Islam the exception? The guy drew Jesus as a pedophile for God's sake (no pun intended.) Why aren't the Muslims protesting against that drawing? Is Jesus not a prophet according to Muslims? Is that drawing not sacrilegious?
BTW, I take it your not participating in draw Mohammed day on the 20th? LOL.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 15, 2010 6:12:46 GMT -5
Thats a very good point. The extremists said nothing about the portrayal of Jesus Christ.
So this should show you that these people are not talking for all muslims, since Jesus is a prophet in islam. These people are extremist jihadists, they are not following the Islamic way of life. They have double standards.
These are the people that the so called ' freedom of speech/to insult' was intended to provoke and it did so....
You shouldn't insult crazy people... you need to be careful of who you cross. he deserves whatever backlash he gets from this. That is my point... why is it do hard to understand?
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Post by leshte on May 15, 2010 11:19:13 GMT -5
Yes freedom of speech allows even that, depicting prophets as dogs. You can call it freedom of speech you can call it disrespect; either way its all within the law.
Now I wanna point something out. I mentioned it earlier but you ignored it. Since you are so offended and against people making fun of prophets. Satan is regarded as the prophet of millions of people who call themselves satanist. He is made fun of, depicted disrespectfully etc etc. on a daily basis, on tv, magazines, cartoons and also by the jihadists christians, and muslims. Why is it ok to disrespect this prophet but it is not ok to depict the others the same way. See there are those that don't give a $hit about religions that find it ridiculous when those that are zelous about religions defending only one prophet but disregarding others. Then for what reason should the rest of the population heed to your complains?
Of course this is another stupid comment and statement. Again what God sanctions that a caricature equals a death sentence. What is so hard to understand that as long as you're within the law nobody deserves any punishment. As a matter of fact those who make threats deserve jail time. He doesn't deserve any backlash. What you could say is that backlash was expected, but there is a huge difference between saying he deserves it and backlash was expected. When you say he deserves it, then you are supporting those who want to slay him. They too are saying that he deserves to die. What's your view on that, DY?
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Post by malsor4life on May 15, 2010 11:32:36 GMT -5
Lots of wars have been fought for gaining this right Good point. Alot of lives have been lost for theses basic rights we have. Btw, u cant make a distinction between a comedian and someone who does it 'seriously'. Have you ever seen a comedy show, there isnt one type of person or ideology in this world that hasnt been mocked. Everyone is fair game. Once u start curtailing who and in what situation someone can express themself, it becomes a slippery slope and little by little ur rights get taken away. Thats a very bad thing for open and free societies. I am deeply religious and constantly see Jesus getting mocked and cursed at on TV, internet and just about everywhere. I dont get a sudden urge to become a suicide bomber. It all comes down to freedom, individualism and free will !!
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 15, 2010 16:45:43 GMT -5
For the comment about Satan, I have the same view as about Jesus. See the comment I made previous to this one.
By the way, I didn't say God sanctions it. I do not define my answers based on what God would do or think or say. It is my view. Unless u view me as God I don't see how that is relevant.
As far as i am concerned I couldn't give a toss if he lives or dies, he is insignificent for me, I do not like the way he talks about a religion LACKING KNOWLEDGE ON THE SUBJECT. He is not expressing any view other than : LETS FILM THE EXTREMISTS AND PORTRAY to the world THAT ALL MUSLIMS ARE THE SAME AS THESE EXTREMISTS. Lets educate the ignorant ... lets show them what psychopaths Muslims are. This thread provides clear evidence that many view muslims as all jihadi terrorists... that are ready to blow up buildings. This type of biased media whorage only creates chaos in already dividing community. This is not freedom of speech. This has spurred interest in the growth of Nazi groups, especially one of the right wing bastard German Neo Nazi type groups being funded by a SWEDISH millionaire. The backlash I state is whatever comes to him, abuse, threats, or death... he brought it on himself.... don't spit in someones face unless you are willing to lick it back up.... once you spit it out... he will punch your lights out... or worse.
Do you understand this? I mean it isn't a difficult concept to comprehend.
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Post by leshte on May 15, 2010 17:03:35 GMT -5
It gets difficult to understand when you state he DESERVES ,among the many other things, death. There is nothing more jihadist than wanting someone to die because of a caricature. Since when caricature= death. I have yet to see any religious book or any religious rite sanctioning that. There is no bias at all when unmasking such behavior. It exists. It is there. This is not a bias against one religion since all religions are being disrespected and the only ones calling for the death of someone are coming only from one group. You have yet to grasp the notion of free speech; along with the people calling for this dude's death.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 15, 2010 17:16:41 GMT -5
The point you just CANNOT UNDERSTAND IS THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GOD!!
Your bias is digusting, how dare you try to say that only muslims act extremly about insults to their religion.
I guess you are ignorant about other religious groups that act similarly. This is not a big suprise since the media focus is always upon Muslims and showing ONLY them as terrorists where in fact the behaviour of these people is totally unislamic.
I already stated whether he lives or dies I couldn't give a toss about. ever heard of 'getting what is coming to you?' He brought this on himself, I have no sympathy for people who actually go out of their way to attract threats to themselves... he knew what he was doing. Simple as. and now he has to face up to it.
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bato2
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Art Changed The World
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Post by bato2 on May 15, 2010 17:16:37 GMT -5
I got feed enough with some morons going over the same thing, over and over again Is becoming irritating... Many artist are just playing the dirty game of global media to keep feed up the monster! For me the guy does not deserve any attention at all....Either those primitive morons who stormed the building..Those deserve prison and eviction from the country!
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Post by leshte on May 15, 2010 17:42:29 GMT -5
Well Jesus has been disrespected and Mohamed has been disrespected. Now which of the groups is involved in death threats. South park disrespects Jesus on almost every single episode. They do it once to Mohamed and they get death threats. Where is the bias here.
Sure it might be the case, but they claim to be the biggest islamists out there and you not condemning this but B$ about someone deserving death because of a cartoon doesn't exactly take that bias out. It is those like you with a muslim background that should be this dude's biggest free speech advocate. That is how you shake off bias. Instead you say he deserves to maybe die. Being an ahole doesn't equal a death sentence. Simple as that. Why can you just state that so we get over it.
This is completley different with saying he DESERVES it. Also what's coming to him is not exactly equal in proportion to what came to these groups. If you talk about equality maybe the muslim groups should have made a caricature of him. Talk about a stupid overreaction.
Yes ok; but I don't see you condemn those who want to kill him. I see you say he deserves it but not yet state that those who want to kill him are wrong and should be punished for the threats. It is not unlawful to be an ahole. It is unlawful to threaten someone's life. Yet it seems you take the side of those who threaten someone's life through some lame justifications. Fact of the matter is this dude is a $hit stirrer. Fact is there was gonna be backlash. But coming on this boards and saying he DESERVES to be punished, and advocating a truncation of human rights such as free speech because some religious nuts don't like them is totally short-sighted. Anyways whatever.
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 15, 2010 17:54:44 GMT -5
Its breaking the power of authority that the given character yields. People constantly satyre Bush and he was the head of the most powerful nation in the world. Muhammed is the head (besides god) of a powerful and large religion, therefore he too as he wields a powerful image that is not above scrutiny. Simply put: nobody is free of ridicule...
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 15, 2010 17:59:40 GMT -5
Russel Brand recieved death threats from American Right wing groups after making fun of Jesus. Those terrorist chistians, they should all be sent to a monastry in the mountains somewhere away from society. Scum that they are,
Russell brand stated after apologising about his comments: I learned you don't make jokes about humourless people because they might kill you".
25th April 2010. Though I guess you didn't 'hear about this did you?'
So you wish me to say especially because I am a muslim that these people are wrong and they should all go to hell? Its people like you who can only ever be deep as a puddle on the street, defining my views and everything I say based on my religion. Have I made any statement that i agree with extremists? that I agree with their acts? You try to twist the conversation but unfortunatly that won't work here. I damn all extremists to hell, but as i said.... If people push,,, they better be ready to get pushed back. He DESERVES EVERYTHING HE GETS,,,, ALL BY HIMSELF HE WOKE UP ONE DAY AND SAID... LET ME PROVOKE SOME EXTREMISTS...TUFF SH.IT TO HIM. ZERO SYMPATHY. My view would be exactly the same if it were christian extremists involved, or jews or whatever.
That is my personal view on the matter, I believe in Karma... send out bad karma... get it back 3 fold...
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 15, 2010 18:15:56 GMT -5
March 14th 2010 “What Elton John has done is desecrated the image of the Lord Jesus Christ, blasphemed the Lord Jesus Christ,” Mr Horsley said in his YouTube video 65 year old man from Atlanta, Georgia was arrested last week after posting a video of himself on YouTube holding a sign that said “Elton John must die” Now if Elton John fans went to that mans house and shot him dead.. I wouldn't shed a tear. That man all alone decided to do some media whorage and pulled negativity upon himself. Another point to add, a few years ago an American university professor was sent death threats from right wing christians because he taught EVOLUTION I mean thats not even freedom of speech thats education. These christians are really crazy huh? omg they should just go back to their churches and chill out ...
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Post by logjiktek on May 15, 2010 18:45:01 GMT -5
Those right wing Christian groups can be just as crazy. I don't think the intention of the thread was Christian Radicals vs. Muslim Radicals. I'm not really sure how the thread turned into that direction. Rather I believe the issue at hand is about free speech. More specifically, does Lars Vilks' have the right to voice his opinion on Mohammed.
DY, you seem to believe he has the right to do so, but he deserves anything that comes with his views. Such as death threats, bodily harm, et cetra. I disagree since I believe he should have the right to voice his opinion without fear of death or injury. Now would you feel the same way if religion was replaced with any other subject. Say politics, economic views, sexual orientation, government and so forth?
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 15, 2010 19:00:05 GMT -5
Yep, anyone that offends a mass group of people who has displayed extreme violent actions, should be ready for the reaction. Be it violent or not. I especially care little for those who are ignorant of subjects yet feel the need to say 'something' about them just for attention.
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Post by logjiktek on May 15, 2010 19:01:29 GMT -5
So we should let the "extremist group" dictate what is acceptable and what isn't acceptable? Fck that.
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Post by leshte on May 15, 2010 19:01:28 GMT -5
Free speech is where you seem to be ignorant about. Also the hell with any religious nut that threatens anyone for using free speech, be them christian, muslim, jews etc etc.
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