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Post by leshte on May 15, 2010 19:41:47 GMT -5
Sure tough luck for him, but for the rest of us we can't just sit there and take the views imposed by radicals and non-rational people. That is why outrage against such acts and such group from the rest of us is necessary; to counter that imposition no matter how much of an ahole the $hit stirrer was to begin with.
Here's an example. Here in the US there is a dude that curses and fingers policemen every time he sees them. It was on tv last week. It seems that everyone agrees that something might be coming to him one day or another, yet the vast majority of the society agrees that if or whenever someone decides to do sth to him, they will have to face all the power of the law since being ahole and cursing the cops is not illegal. Believe me the society would be outraged if he ended up in a bad situation just because of that. Lets just say that there are people out there that like to test the limits of free speech and freedoms and whenever they're within those limits it is my belief that the society should be their greatest defender no matter how much of an ahole, how disrespectful or how many buttons they pushed.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 15, 2010 19:47:41 GMT -5
By defending that mans right to insult? I think to start off you would need to understand what he did was provocation. It was abuse of free speech rights. There is no need to stir things up, If you give reason to these extremists to raise their ugly heads, you in fact are causing the chaos. (which was his aim) In fact if you just ignore them and their stupid existance support for them would waver. Most of the people that attacked that guy were kids In very prestigious universities in London they are recruiting the youth by showing them - Look what the west is doing attacking our values and insulting us.... they have given the extremists more reason to act in their retarded manner.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 15, 2010 19:48:52 GMT -5
Of course whoever breaks the law should be held responsible for their actions. They will also rot in hell.
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 15, 2010 20:37:40 GMT -5
Ultimately this is going nowhere and in the end we will end up with 9sum pages of constant circles. In the end, I think we can come to some conclusions we can agree on:
1. The insult of Muhammed lacked any colorful aspect of satyr but was little more than an open attempt to instigate Muslims and in turn receive response from European groups.
2. The Muslim reaction was in large part indicative of an undeveloped people from a legalistic western perspective. They fell for the bait just as they were expected to and in turn this person became something of a martyr.
Do people agree?
On everything else, neither Desire nor anyone else here will concede.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 16, 2010 3:58:00 GMT -5
The Muslim reaction = The Fanatics/Extremists reaction. Why would the person become a martry. He certainly isn't. He is an anti-Islamic Nazi.
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Post by EriTopSheqeri on May 16, 2010 6:17:11 GMT -5
Desire, shut up and go back to the kitchen...or else...
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 16, 2010 8:49:15 GMT -5
I didn't know they allowed access to this forum from Iran.
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Post by zoti on May 16, 2010 21:59:48 GMT -5
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Post by hellboy87 on May 17, 2010 3:17:12 GMT -5
I believe in freedom of speech,but I think there's a lot of arrogance from the West.
I think its common for people to be angry when they have been insulted or mistreated by someone else to want to attack or kill the person who did it.At least as an expression of it.
This is nothing to do with religion,well to an extent it is.It's an ego thing.People usually dont take well when their egos have been bruised.
You may say,Jesus gets insulted,but then again,its different because this is coming from the West to the West.
There is the big Western world here on planet earth,and you have the big Muslim world.The West has been calling the shots for a long time and still is.So,for the Muslims,as a big group,there is a lot bowing down.There is this us against them thing.
So insulting the Muslims will of course bring out a huge negative reaction.And they are powerless because they are poor and undeveloped,and they've taking so much shit from the West.It was only time before they start hitting back.
Havent you guys heard of bar fights when one guy insults another and he attacks? Same thing here.
I dont agree with them wanting to kill the guy.I also think all these Western countries are to blame.I mean,you know these people are Muslims and you let them in like that? Look at those European countries who brought in guest workers and then ALLOWED them to stay(Netherlands,Germany,Austria,France among them).Their fault and only their fault.
As for banning the burqa,man! What happened to individual freedom? You may say this is the West and we dont wear that here as its not our culture,but then,the West in an individualistic society whilst the non-Western world is a traditional,collectivist society,where there is not much room to steer from the norms of the society.
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Post by hellboy87 on May 17, 2010 3:33:58 GMT -5
The Islamic headscarf should be prohibited even in streets ! Really? You is no European shetjani ;D Another thing I want to add to my last post.English Legal System is one of my subjects for A-Levels,and in the chapter of Sentencing(the defendant),one of the points that the court will have to look at is whether the defendant was provoked. So you see? Provoking people can really bring out the worst in people.Again,I am not condoning the death threats,but what I'm saying here is that it's human nature. I believe this is all the result of globalization.This is just the beginning.Muslims will need to learn how to deal with this,if not,I think that those of them who are in the West must leave the West and then the Muslim world should have minimal contacts with the West and both sides not participating in each others' affairs. I also think the West shouldnt be acting like such assh*les.I mean,cant people be nice? It's like what Toski was saying,their just bullying them,teasing and taunting them to get a response to condemn them as backward etc.
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bato2
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Post by bato2 on May 17, 2010 4:54:49 GMT -5
Lajm i keq shume..jashte shtepise se ketij artistit u arrestuan dy vellezer me origjine Kosovare(shetesi Suedeze) te cilet u perpoqen ti vinin flaken Turp!
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Post by mansterofsouli on May 17, 2010 9:28:04 GMT -5
I watched the video. I cannot fully agree that it is westerners just provoking muslims to portray them as backwards. When do we become responsible for our actions? When I am provoked it does not mean I try to kill the person. When I am provoked it does not even mean I yell at the person. An animal attacks when provoked, seriously. I could not help but think what a bunch of animals the protestors were. Nobody provokes anybody it is just weakminded and dumb people who allow themselves to be upset. Why would a Muslim show up to something they knew they would be insulted at? Why would they not just leave and not participate in the desecration of their religious figures? It would be like me a Christian showing up at a satan worshipping church and being surprised and insulted if they insulted Jesus. Psheeeeeesssshhhhh!
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Post by mansterofsouli on May 17, 2010 9:30:55 GMT -5
Hellboy, in the west there is also this "us against them thing." I think that is pretty common to whatever part of the world you come from. Fact of the matter is these people are religious nuts and I would have loved to Chuck Norris chop the woman at 20 seconds that was screaming "Allahu Akbar" over and over again. Good day to you.
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Post by oszkarthehun on May 22, 2010 12:33:22 GMT -5
The guy is certainly provocative but those extremist Muslims in those clips are also extremly annoying. IN Western countries people sometimes make fun of and satirise religion its part of freedom of speech, we all know this has happened towards Christianity with controversial art works like "Piss Christ" and of course in cartoons and via comedians. The extremist Muslims in these clips are living by their own choice in a Western country but yet they dont respect the law as they try to physically attack and Im sure if there was no security they would definitly kill that guy. For those of you who dont know the background, here in Sweden there is an artist called Lars Vilks who became famous for drawing a caricature of Muhammed the prophet as a roundabout dog. After this, he received death threats and a price on his head ($150,000) ... he has been living under threat since then (including by Jihad Jane who tried to recruit terrorists to kill Vilks). This guy continues however ... the videos below are the result of his lecture in Uppsala University (on free speech), where he showed a video of naked individuals in sexual positions with masks depicting Mohammed. A hero and representative of free speech or a guy pushing it for fame?
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Post by hellboy87 on May 22, 2010 18:23:58 GMT -5
Hellboy, in the west there is also this "us against them thing." I think that is pretty common to whatever part of the world you come from. Fact of the matter is these people are religious nuts and I would have loved to Chuck Norris chop the woman at 20 seconds that was screaming "Allahu Akbar" over and over again. Good day to you. huh? I have doubts whether they are religious nuts,well maybe the screaming one.I thinks its just them fighting because they have been insulted.People generally dont take insults well.
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king
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Post by king on May 25, 2010 0:32:10 GMT -5
Its not right to insult religious feeling in such away, and publicity of pornography "naked people in sexual position" is not really free speech... but muslims dont have the right to kill him because insult or words never equals murder .... muslims are backward and dangerous because they dont understand the worth of human live
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Post by oszkarthehun on May 25, 2010 12:50:21 GMT -5
The point is there are other ways that they can express their complaints regarding that issue. Perhaps there is even legal channels they could go through, but rather the way they choose by screaming and attacking and wailing etc just makes them look like some uneducated villages that stepped into the modern world off a time machine that transported them somehow into the future. You are right HB people can act in certain ways when they have been insulted, but making fun of religious icons has not exclusively just been aimed at Muslims it has been aimed at Christians and Judaism and other religions too but generally in those cases it doesnt result in people retaliating with violent acts or fatwas. Hellboy, in the west there is also this "us against them thing." I think that is pretty common to whatever part of the world you come from. Fact of the matter is these people are religious nuts and I would have loved to Chuck Norris chop the woman at 20 seconds that was screaming "Allahu Akbar" over and over again. Good day to you. huh? I have doubts whether they are religious nuts,well maybe the screaming one.I thinks its just them fighting because they have been insulted.People generally dont take insults well.
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Post by Steven on Jun 4, 2010 16:27:58 GMT -5
The Swedes have a right to do whatever they want in their country. If freedom of speech is important to them then so be it; that's their prerogative because it's their nation. Sometimes I think that Muslims should look at their own illiberal rule before criticizing western countries. There's discrimination against Christians in Pakistan, there's a genicide in Darfur against Christians and animists, Jews are not even allowed in Saudi Arabia.
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Post by hellboy87 on Jun 4, 2010 17:28:23 GMT -5
^^ That is Islam and their culture.That's why.
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