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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jan 26, 2011 3:36:26 GMT -5
Well if you don't claim a good portion of Bulgarians/Macedonians as Serbs then you should take that up with your Cetnik brothers in arms Pyrros and Novi and tell them why you disagree. I think it would be an interesting exchange among Serbs on the forum. I'm neutral on the subject. I think its a possibility, but not really relevant. Note: I'm not speaking about Macedonians/Macedonia So in other words you passively agree with them but chose not to engage in the debate? |
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 26, 2011 3:46:27 GMT -5
No. He says he does not know/care. BTW Krivo has made a lot accurate observations about the Serbian speech of western Bulgarians. But when the whole bulgarian ethno-concept (in touristic-folklor terms) is based around Bregovic, Kosovo and Sopska Salata, what should the neutral third party assume about it? other than the obvious?
Bottom line:
Bulgarians need a lot of de-serbification before they lay their hands over Serbia or Makedonia. But in the same time by self-deserbification, they lose ground on this very aim.
Its a struggle destined to fail. mathematically speaking.
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Post by rusebg on Jan 26, 2011 4:51:07 GMT -5
Let us suppose for a moment that I am more aware of you what is played in Bulgarian mehani.
Now...Bregovic has two songs that are being played - Mesecina and Kalasnikov. That's it.
Kosovo - here you are speaking out of your arse as usual. Not a single song about Kosovo can be heard in any place, no idea how you came up with this.
So two songs is hardly enough for a whole night, don't you think? People listen to Bulgarian folklore, Pyrro, that is the music that is played. You are just a liar.
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Kralj Vatra
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Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 26, 2011 5:04:26 GMT -5
You are the liar Tatar. That's what i witnessed in your pitiful "VESELOTO SELO" tavern.
I went my wife there to see some Bulgarian folklore and all we watched is dances in the tunes of Bregovic, Makedonia, Kosovo (i cant recall the song... Golube Golube???), and some random salad choreagraphy with Pontian fast music-dances.
And this is a mainstream ethno place where Bulgos take their foreign guests...
Man, in moments like that, i understand why you want makedonia so much....
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Post by rusebg on Jan 26, 2011 5:10:16 GMT -5
Ok, Pyrro, you know Bulgaria more than I do. You speak Bulgarian better than me, and you know our folklore better than me. What is there further to comment?
p.s macedonian folklore is part of the Bulgarian one as a whole. Just as we have songs from Dobrudja or songs from Thrace, we have songs from macedonia.
p.s what do you know about our folklore dances, btw? Nothing. Spare me the comment of Pontian whatever.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 26, 2011 5:33:43 GMT -5
^ Ruseche, please spare me the twisting  |
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jan 26, 2011 5:43:57 GMT -5
No. He says he does not know/care. BTW Krivo has made a lot accurate observations about the Serbian speech of western Bulgarians. But when the whole bulgarian ethno-concept (in touristic-folklor terms) is based around Bregovic, Kosovo and Sopska Salata, what should the neutral third party assume about it? other than the obvious? Bottom line: Bulgarians need a lot of de-serbification before they lay their hands over Serbia or Makedonia. But in the same time by self-deserbification, they lose ground on this very aim. Its a struggle destined to fail. mathematically speaking. What about the Bulgarian(isms) of south eastern Serbia and Macedonia? They don't exist? |
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Post by rusebg on Jan 26, 2011 5:53:20 GMT -5
Man, according to this duo of titans of thought, even Western Bulgaria doesn't exist.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jan 26, 2011 5:55:02 GMT -5
Man, according to this duo of titans of thought, even Western Bulgaria doesn't exist. I thought it was some kind of lake. |
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Post by terroreign on Jan 26, 2011 6:06:09 GMT -5
I'm neutral on the subject. I think its a possibility, but not really relevant. Note: I'm not speaking about Macedonians/Macedonia So in other words you passively agree with them but chose not to engage in the debate? I just think we should move on to better things, this discussion has been going on for practically a year now. |
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 26, 2011 6:13:23 GMT -5
What about the Bulgarian(isms) of south eastern Serbia and Macedonia? They don't exist? This is a nice topic for Bulgos/Croats (and various other Serb haters) but when the knife meets the bone (when linguistics come into the game) some unpleasant and worrying conclusions start to be deducted out of this... And most people change the subject. Bottom line, the "Bulgarianism" of southern eastern Serbia is less than the Serbianism of western Bulgaria. The topics/discussions here are endless about it. Go search it. |
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jan 26, 2011 6:20:34 GMT -5
What about the Bulgarian(isms) of south eastern Serbia and Macedonia? They don't exist? This is a nice topic for Bulgos/Croats (and various other Serb haters) but when the knife meets the bone (when linguistics come into the game) some unpleasant and worrying conclusions start to be deducted out of this... And most people change the subject. Bottom line, the "Bulgarianism" of southern eastern Serbia is less than the Serbianism of western Bulgaria. The topics/discussions here are endless about it. Go search it. Except that Western Bulgarian , Macedonian , and local dialects of south eastern Serbia are more easily intelligible to an 'Eastern Bulgarian' than they are to a Serb who speaks standard Serbian. Just sayin. They are not in the Serbo-Croatian branch of south Slav languages for sure. It's about as foreign as Slovenian is. |
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Post by terroreign on Jan 26, 2011 6:24:57 GMT -5
^Actually Torlakian (south-eastern Serbian) is quite intelligible. Have you ever seen Zona Zamfirova?
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jan 26, 2011 6:28:09 GMT -5
What about the Bulgarian(isms) of south eastern Serbia and Macedonia? They don't exist? This is a nice topic for Bulgos/Croats (and various other Serb haters) but when the knife meets the bone (when linguistics come into the game) some unpleasant and worrying conclusions start to be deducted out of this... And most people change the subject. Bottom line, the "Bulgarianism" of southern eastern Serbia is less than the Serbianism of western Bulgaria. The topics/discussions here are endless about it. Go search it. linguistics is such a poor way to determine centuries old ethnic identities. Such an approach was popular in the 19th century but gradually lost steam and for good reason too. So many local dialects existed/exist among the entire Slav speaking Balkans that are in some cases so different that they can be considered a different language. People change their speech according to where they go, settle , and spawn new generations. This is more than evident with Serbs from Croatia who's ancestors migrated there from the Eastern Balkans centuries ago , the Romance population of Dalmatia that now speaks Slavic , the Croats in Burgenland who speak Kajkavian but were originally Chakavian and Stakavian speakers from Bosnia. The list is virtually endless. Language is too fluid. |
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jan 26, 2011 6:37:27 GMT -5
^Actually Torlakian (south-eastern Serbian) is quite intelligible. Have you ever seen Zona Zamfirova? Ok , I only understand little parts of this song and I am fluent in standard school Croatian ( which means Serbian too obviously). You can really sit there and tell me with a straight face that any Serb can easily understand this? Hell , I find even hardcore Kajkavian and Cakavski way easier to understand. My bet is that the resident Bulgarians here will get this much better than us. On a side note , I think its a beautiful sounding song. |
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 26, 2011 6:38:09 GMT -5
Except that Western Bulgarian , Macedonian , and local dialects of south eastern Serbia are more easily intelligible to an 'Eastern Bulgarian' than they are to a Serb who speaks standard Serbian. Just sayin. They are not in the Serbo-Croatian branch of south Slav languages for sure. It's about as foreign as Slovenian is. radiate, both gyrro and the novo nothing are NOT interested in the truth. They are here to proove the most laughable thing: that Macedonians and Torlaks are more serbian than the real Serbs, that Macedonian and Torlakian is more Serbian than Serbian itself... How can you be logical with such "people" (sorry for the insult to human race)? They are not interested in facts, sources on Macedonia, they are interested in what Novakovich had to say: Since the Bulgarian idea, as it is well-known, is deeply rooted in Macedonia, I think it is almost impossible to shake it completely by opposing it merely with the Serbian idea. This idea, we fear, would be incapable, as opposition pure and simple, of suppressing the Bulgarian idea. That is why the Serbian idea will need an ally that could stand in direct opposition to Bulgarianism and would contain in itself the elements which could attract the people and their feelings and thus sever them from Bulgarianism. This ally I see in Macedonism...." from the report of S. Novakovic to the Minister of Education in Belgrade about "Macedonism" as a transitional stage in Serbianization of the Macedonian Bulgarians; In short: they are modern day Novakovich. A falsifier of our history. |
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Post by terroreign on Jan 26, 2011 6:42:55 GMT -5
^Actually Torlakian (south-eastern Serbian) is quite intelligible. Have you ever seen Zona Zamfirova? Ok , I only understand little parts of this song and I am fluent in standard school Croatian ( which means Serbian too obviously). You can really sit there and tell me with a straight face that any Serb can easily understand this? Hell , I find even hardcore Kajkavian and Cakavski way easier to understand. My bet is that the resident Bulgarians here will get this much better than us. Well spoken language is different when sung and to add to that there's a lot of anachronisms in that song. There are plenty in Montenegro or in any region you go to really. |
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jan 26, 2011 6:45:58 GMT -5
Except that Western Bulgarian , Macedonian , and local dialects of south eastern Serbia are more easily intelligible to an 'Eastern Bulgarian' than they are to a Serb who speaks standard Serbian. Just sayin. They are not in the Serbo-Croatian branch of south Slav languages for sure. It's about as foreign as Slovenian is. radiate, both gyrro and the novo nothing are NOT interested in the truth. They are here to proove the most laughable thing: that Macedonians and Torlaks are more serbian than the real Serbs, that Macedonian and Torlakian is more Serbian than Serbian itself... How can you be logical with such "people" (sorry for the insult to human race)? They are not interested in facts, sources on Macedonia, they are interested in what Novakovich had to say: Since the Bulgarian idea, as it is well-known, is deeply rooted in Macedonia, I think it is almost impossible to shake it completely by opposing it merely with the Serbian idea. This idea, we fear, would be incapable, as opposition pure and simple, of suppressing the Bulgarian idea. That is why the Serbian idea will need an ally that could stand in direct opposition to Bulgarianism and would contain in itself the elements which could attract the people and their feelings and thus sever them from Bulgarianism. This ally I see in Macedonism...." from the report of S. Novakovic to the Minister of Education in Belgrade about "Macedonism" as a transitional stage in Serbianization of the Macedonian Bulgarians; In short: they are modern day Novakovich. A falsifier of our history. Extreme nationalists on all sides that try to explain history have this nasty habit of overemphasizing their peoples' role while simultaneously undermining or not acknowledging others' if it works against any kind of special interest they have. Granted Serb historians especially of the 19th century are notorious for this but its not just them. Other Balkanites share the same guilt. |
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 26, 2011 6:48:20 GMT -5
Sure, I agree. However to claim Macedonia as Serbian is pure idiotic and based on wishful thinking while the Bulgarian origin of the people of macedonia is hardly disputed among the historians.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jan 26, 2011 6:52:51 GMT -5
Ok , I only understand little parts of this song and I am fluent in standard school Croatian ( which means Serbian too obviously). You can really sit there and tell me with a straight face that any Serb can easily understand this? Hell , I find even hardcore Kajkavian and Cakavski way easier to understand. My bet is that the resident Bulgarians here will get this much better than us. Well spoken language is different when sung and to add to that there's a lot of anachronisms in that song. There are plenty in Montenegro or in any region you go to really. No dude , this is virtually a different language , its even more different than Kajkavski and Cakavski. Shall I demonstrate even more? I'm taking for granted that even though were Croat and Serb respectively we have learned virtually the same hybridized language ( Serbo-Croatian) and we follow the same standard. I'm pretty confident you are just as dumbfounded by the lyrics in the song as I am. By the by, songs are often representative of local speech especially infused with local accents. Notice that quite a few traditional songs from southern Serbia and Macedonia stress 'more' following some statement. Obviously they don't mean 'more' as in 'sea' but its something local to them , sounds kinda cool actually. In songs and folklore you hear the 'soul' of the people. Just listen and don't be frustrated if you can't quite understand. |
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